Author Topic: Luigi Boccherini (1743-1805)!  (Read 24744 times)

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Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Luigi Boccherini (1743-1805)!
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2009, 06:43:26 PM »
Haydn left his last quartet unfinished in 1803.
Boccherini left his last quartet unfinished in 1804!

His quartet output is head to head with Haydn all the way from 1762-1804!  Methinks Haydn's been getting all the credit.


Actually, Don has understated the number of String Quartets written by Boccherini - if you return to my opening post, and the link to the catalog mentioned, Luigi wrote approximately 100 String Quartets, depending on how you want to count the last ones in that catalog - these were written over a 40+ yr period (1761-1804) - from my estimation in reviewing this catalog, about 20% of these works were composed in minor keys.

Although I own a LOT of Boccherini, I'm amazed at 'how few' of his SQs I have in my collection - must look for some more, and I hope that others will make some recommendations (of course, assuming that more recordings are available?) -  :D

Offline snyprrr

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Re: Luigi Boccherini (1743-1805)!
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2009, 11:04:01 PM »
I was looking over the list, and, check this out:

After Haydn's single Op.42 (d) quartet, Bocch. "replies" with this strange concept:

Op.39 (A)
Op.41 (c, C)
Op.42 (A, C)
Op.43 (A, A)

What do you make of that?

My appetite to hear some nice, mature (or otherwise) quartets by Bocch. is really being stoked!  I really just haven't seen any major series.  Especially the later quartets.
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Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Luigi Boccherini (1743-1805)!
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2009, 06:44:15 AM »
I was looking over the list, and, check this out:

After Haydn's single Op.42 (d) quartet, Bocch. "replies" with this strange concept:

Op.39 (A) Op.41 (c, C) Op.42 (A, C) Op.43 (A, A) - What do you make of that?

Yes, I noticed that also - he was composing these SQs in 'batches of 6', then this group of 1 & 2 works; I was checking the dates of these compositions mentioned - 1787 to 1790; I believe he lost a major Spanish sponsor in the mid-1780s and came on harder times, perhaps he was just struggling to make some money?  After the Op. 43 works, he returned to writing the SQs in groups of 6 - I'm sure that book I read a while back provided some explanatory reasons, but it was a library loan and I cannot recall the details.

However, just checking on Amazon, there seems to be a lot of String Quartet offerings; currently, I own Op. 2, Nos. 1-6 SQs w/ Sonare Quartett on CPO - these are the ones written in 1761 and are of historic importance along side those written by the young Haydn; and just another disc w/ the Petersen Quartett on Capriccio of a mixture of SQs, i.e. one each from Op. 15, 24, 39, & 64 - recommendations for more from all, please -  :D

Offline Grazioso

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Re: Luigi Boccherini (1743-1805)!
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2009, 06:55:08 AM »
The complete symphony set on CPO is a delight, with excellent playing, conducting, and recording. These make a really interesting and entertaining alternative to the classical symphonic model as practiced by Haydn and Mozart.

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Offline Florestan

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Re: Luigi Boccherini (1743-1805)!
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2009, 06:55:52 AM »
At least, I see that he chooses minor keys often, but does he go for "plagent melancoly"?  Maybe it's that Haydn seems to "formal" to me?

Not really.  Out of about 40 string quartets that I'm aware of, only 8 are in a minor key.

Well, his Oboe Quintets op. 55 Nos. 5 & 6 are both in G major but their bittersweet melancholia is very minor-ish. Worth checking it out.
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Offline snyprrr

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Re: Luigi Boccherini (1743-1805)!
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2009, 11:30:17 AM »
Well, I'm listening to B's Op.58 SQs 1-6 (CPO/Revolutionary Drawing Room), my first real listen to B, and I'm not impressed. Maybe NO "classical" era music impresses me on first listen, but I know that that's not true.

I believe this is B's last big opus of SQs before his unfinished two of 1804 (huh, him AND Haydn!), though you mention Op.64. Either way, it certainly is "late" B, so it was quite in line with what I was looking for, but I just can't really find that memorable quality going on here. There is some mention in the notes that this was "just" something to give to publishers, but otherwise I find it hard to believe that B was this...mm...boring. Honestly, tastes just like chicken, er, I mean, Haydn, but with 3 mvmts.

Op.58 (C, Eb, Bb, b, D, Eb)

This was written right around Haydn's Opp. 76-77, and I gotta say, it seems Haydn is just head and antlers above this stuff, which doesn't really say much, considering how little I enjoy Haydn's SQs. However, I defy anyone not an expert to tell B and H apart here. I'll even amend and say that B's Op.58 is as good as H's Op.71, Op.74, Op.77, and parts of Op.76 (only H has at least some memorable ideas in parts of Op.76). B is certainly not "epic" here, though.

Perhaps I like the earlier SQ era (1770s-early 1790s), I don't know, but my first reaction to these late (1799) Boccherini SQs is "yawn". I guess I was expecting an Italian minor key extravaganza, but this is all pretty well behaved Haydnesque type stuff, which mean that my attention flags. Perhaps Joseph Martin Kraus is the man I'm looking for?

Thank God for the Enoch Pratt library, for I would not have wanted to endeavour the classical era SQ literature on my own dime. I AM, however, doing the do, and going through it. Next stop, Dittersdorf.
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Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Luigi Boccherini (1743-1805)!
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2009, 01:26:51 PM »
The complete symphony set on CPO is a delight, with excellent playing, conducting, and recording. These make a really interesting and entertaining alternative to the classical symphonic model as practiced by Haydn and Mozart.



Grazioso - meant to ask this question when you first posted, but obviously never did!  :-\

The symphony box set is listed on Amazon as having 8 discs; having a number of CPO box packages, these are usually packaged as single discs in their own jewel boxes making for a BIG box and a storage issue; just curious if this practice holds up for the Boccherini box?  Thanks -  :)

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Luigi Boccherini (1743-1805)!
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2009, 01:31:17 PM »
Well, I'm listening to B's Op.58 SQs 1-6 (CPO/Revolutionary Drawing Room), my first real listen to B, and I'm not impressed. Maybe NO "classical" era music impresses me on first listen, but I know that that's not true.................


Snyprrr - well, sorry about your experience w/ Luigi's SQs - maybe not the best place to start?  :-\

I've preferred his String Quintets, just love the dual cellos - might want to give these a try, and plenty of recommendations already made in this thread; please reply back if you give these works a try -  :)

Offline snyprrr

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Re: Luigi Boccherini (1743-1805)!
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2009, 09:24:22 AM »
Boccherini SQs Op.39, Op.41 1-2/CPO The Revolutionary Drawing Room

The last set I had was the valedectory Op.58. This cd gathers 3 SQs written after a lengthy SQ writing hiatus, 1787-88, right around the time many other composers were writing SQs in abundance.

The writing here is a bit different than that in Op.58. It is a verrry friendly and unassuming mode. Op.39, in A major, is very friendly in that A major way. Boccherini definitely "sounds" different than Haydn. I certainly detect whiffs of Spain here.

Op.41 contains 2 SQs: c minor, and C major. But they switch modes so often, it is sometimes hard to tell which one you're in, the minor or major SQ! Again, the writing is so unassuming and friendly. There are no real virtuoso fireworks, but B's twists and turns are their own reward. Again, the c minor SQ is no "minor key" masterpiece: it can be difficult telling you're in a minor key SQ. So far, B hasn't shown himself to be the melancoly master. He does seem to like to trick people in the minor keys, but hey, at least that shows a little depth in his thinking, no?

I might be interested in trying Op.2. Then I would have heard his first, his (basically) last, and something from the middle.

I hate calling this "light" music because of the connotations, but it IS light and non-dangerous stuff. For me, the geniality and friendliness of these two Opp. lift them up. Plus, there's no denying that B certainly sounds pretty unique as far as the classical era goes. I just got the Dittersdorf/CPO yesterday, and comparing them has been very rewarding. I DO imagine that Pleyel would sound similar, too.

Anyhow, Boccherini wasn't what I expected... a little more elusive,...and straightforward... but with a definite "Spanish" tang or twinge. It doesn't sound overtly "classical."

Gaucho! ;D
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Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Luigi Boccherini (1743-1805)!
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2009, 02:15:36 PM »
Boccherini, Luigi (1743-1805) - Keyboard Sonatas w/ String(s) - 2CD bargain set on Brilliant of 6 sonatas for fortepiano & violin & 6 sonatas for fortepiano & violin/cello w/ Franco Angeleri & Laura Alvini on fortepianos, Enrico Gatti on violin, & Roberto Gini on cello.

Just sparkling performances - the fortepiano is recorded well & Luigi's string writing as delightful as ever - this is not the usual Boccherini repertoire, i.e. keyboard, so if you like this composer, the era, and the earlier keyboard instruments, make a purchase - recommended to those w/ the proclivities described!  :D

 

Just tonight, I posted the above in the 'listening thread' about a recent Boccherini purchase - excellent performances on the fortepiano; 2-CD set on the Brilliant label (above, left) - now the first CD in this set is the same licensed from Tactus - added above (right) which I've owned & commented on previously in this thread - so, just some comments not to purchase both - bottom line, the Brilliant set is an excellent bargain -  :)

Offline snyprrr

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Re: Luigi Boccherini (1743-1805)!
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2009, 09:36:48 PM »
I ran through some LB on Amazon.

There are but a few String Sextets. Does anyone know these?

There are not that many String Trios. Does anyone know these?



There were over three hundred entries on "boccherini quartet", yet the field in SQs is pretty manageable.

Op. 2: CPO and Stradivarius

Op.8: Dynamic
Op.9
Op.15

Op.22 (quartettinos)

Op.24/6 (in g minor): EuropaGalant

Op.32: Naxos and Ezterhazy and CPO (CPO 4-6 only)
Op.33 (quartettinos): CPO

Op.39/41: CPO
Op.39: Naxos and EuropaGalant

Op.42 (quartettinos)
Op.43 (quartettinos)
Op.44 (quartettinos)
Op.48 (quartettinos)

Op.52: Dynamic

Op.53 (quartettinos)

Op.58: CPO

There are also compilation albums by the Apponyi and Peterson (who have one of the final two Op.64 SQs), and I believe single SQs by the Italiano and a third EuropaGalant cd, and maybe a few other single SQ cds, but that's about it for actual Boccherini SQs (except for the famous "encore"). When I looked into it, I saw that many of B's opera were for shorter quartettinos, rather than the full SQs of other opera. Six quartettinos will fit on a single cd, but six quartets will not (Op.32).

I have been hesitant to go passed the Opp. 39/41 CPO disc that I really have just been totally enjoying. They come from the same year as Haydn Op.50, and Pleyel, and Ditters, and have that same perfected classical sound, albeit with that Boccherini flair. I just ordered the Op. 24 g minor SQ on the EuropaGalant cd, which I project will be just what I'm looking for (look for me to be totally right or totally wrong here, ha!). And Op.2 and Op.32 have been calling lately. I just don't want to overdo a good thing here, especially if there is other Bocch. string music in the future.
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Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Luigi Boccherini (1743-1805)!
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2009, 07:06:34 AM »
Well, looking at the Quebec catalog of Boccherini's Oeuvre, there are about 70 works that could be listed as Trios (some are 3-instrument divertimenti; G. 77-142; G. 577-78) - I have just a set of discs of these works w/ Trio Miro; 6 trios only on two 'short' discs by Christophorus.

Concerning the Sextets, just 7 listed (G. 454-460), including Op. 23 w/ 6 works; I have only one disc of these compositions (4 from Op. 23), which is part of the 10-CD Capriccio box shown below - not sure if this is still a bargain item but discussed on the first page of this thread and reviewed by Music Web HERE; now I've not listened to these recordings in a while, and would be curious about 'newer' offerings, esp. for the trios!

BTW - have you tried any of the String Quintets:-\


 

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Luigi Boccherini (1743-1805)!
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2009, 07:21:44 AM »
Dave and Snipper,

I have these Sextets:



and am very pleased with them. Hard to beat Ensemble 415 in any case.

Also have the Trio Miro disk that Dave mentions. I am pleased with it, so haven't looked for others. But I also have these:



which are his last trios. A whole different experience from teh earlier Op 14's.

I haven't made the slightest effort on the quartets yet; Boccherini's best music lives in his quintets, IMO. After I acquire more/most of those, I will go after some 4tets. Right now I only have a dozen or so.... :)

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« Last Edit: April 02, 2017, 12:45:41 AM by Que »
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Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Luigi Boccherini (1743-1805)!
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2009, 07:50:23 AM »
Hello Gurn - just checked that Sextet disc - would work for me; contains the 2 Op. 23 sextets missing on my Capriccio CD w/ just one overlap - going to the 'wish list'!

Concerning the Trios, nearly a half dozen offerings on MDT - also checked BRO - they do have the 'Trio Miro' disc for $10, and of course a lot of Quintet offerings.  :)  Dave

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Re: Luigi Boccherini (1743-1805)!
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2009, 07:58:55 AM »
Hello Gurn - just checked that Sextet disc - would work for me; contains the 2 Op. 23 sextets missing on my Capriccio CD w/ just one overlap - going to the 'wish list'!

Concerning the Trios, nearly a half dozen offerings on MDT - also checked BRO - they do have the 'Trio Miro' disc for $10, and of course a lot of Quintet offerings.  :)  Dave

Did they have that "La Real Cámara" disk, (the one I pictured) Dave? It's called "Los últimos trios" (The Last Trios). Awfully nice, even more so if you can get it at a decent price. :)

You can never have enough quintets. Once the Haydn Project has passed the 'acquisition phase', I will go back to Boccherini's quintets. I have an awful lot of them, but really have just scratched the surface. :)

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Offline Guido

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Re: Luigi Boccherini (1743-1805)!
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2009, 08:15:44 AM »
La Musica Notturna Delle Strade Di Madrid No. 6 op.30 is such a lovely piece - an early evocation of streetmusic, the cello solo movement with strumming is one of the most joyous and lovely things he wrote I think.
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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Luigi Boccherini (1743-1805)!
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2009, 09:52:01 AM »
La Musica Notturna Delle Strade Di Madrid No. 6 op.30 is such a lovely piece - an early evocation of streetmusic, the cello solo movement with strumming is one of the most joyous and lovely things he wrote I think.


Yes, it's a wonderful piece. I have a couple versions of it, but this is my undoubted favorite:



Savall & Co. make you feel like you are there... :)

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Offline snyprrr

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Re: Luigi Boccherini (1743-1805)!
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2009, 10:35:43 AM »
I saw those Trio and Sextet cds when I was trolling last night. The "Last Trios" disc does sound interesting.

I purposely didn't check out the search "boccherini quintet" because it had over 500 listings, and I didn't know how to cut that any with an added work. The Flute Quintets, and Piano Quintets, sound interesting (are their other "mixed" quintets?). The Quintets proper, though, seems like quite the task. I will try to get a Grove's overview nect time I go to the library.

Gurn, though, I do think you should check out the SQs Opp. 39/41 that I mentioned. All evidence says that B put a lot of care into these two, particularly. One of the SQs is actually @27mins. long, which doesn't happen in B's SQ literature. I'm just saying that these SQs are most definitely on a par with everyone else's (like I said, everyone was writing good stuff 1787-91!), and, because of their heft, they really do stand out as special.

Maybe I will have to a searchin for the ultimate Boccherini Quintet album, haha, yea, I'll see ya in a hundred years, haha!



btw- that Op.39, Op.41 number, I believe, also has other pieces, including Quintets, in it. I just wonder if the Quintets here are a cut above. As you know, I will be looking for minor keys here. Buh-BUH!!! (musical allusion)
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Offline Gabriel

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Re: Luigi Boccherini (1743-1805)!
« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2009, 01:35:45 PM »
La Musica Notturna Delle Strade Di Madrid No. 6 op.30 is such a lovely piece - an early evocation of streetmusic, the cello solo movement with strumming is one of the most joyous and lovely things he wrote I think.


It is a memorable work. Beautiful, original, easy for listening, resourceful, full of popular flavour and profound (I particularly think of the splendid Il rosario).

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Re: Luigi Boccherini (1743-1805)!
« Reply #39 on: October 31, 2009, 11:44:28 PM »
Europa Galante

Fandango Quintet
La Ritirata Quintet

SQ 24/6 in g minor



Well, first off, these guys are most definitely the HIPPEST HIPsters I heard yet. Mind you, when people criticize HIP's sometimes tangy sound and vibratoless diamond points, this might be what they're talking about. I would love to hear these guys in Haydn Op.20! Anyhow, it really did take me a little to get used to these most super HIP cats, but when I got beyond that, the music certainly came forth euphoniously. The recording is... well, it's really really good!

The SQ wasn't the "obvious" masterpiece I was expecting, but, however, continued B's streak of elusiveness. I'm starting to get a thing for g minor SQs, and this one fits in very nicely with the ones by Michael Haydn and Pleyel. The SQ starts off with a nice little unison bah-bah drama, but settles into a mode I find "rollicking". There is a lot of flitting about to different things. Perhaps one could say it has that charged Mozart minor key feel (duh!). The slow mvmt., particularly, shows a bit more depth than we normally associate with B. The SQ ends on a minuett, which seems to beg for a finale to me, but, what do i know. Very rarely, it seems (haven't heard Vanhal), do the 3 mvmt. SQs match the 4 mvmt. SQs on all cylinders. Taken as such, though, this SQ reminds me of Haydn's "Razor" SQ in its understated and refined elegance.

The two Guitar Quintets have been discussed already, I believe. The effect of toy soldiers marching in the Madrid mvmt. is really quite evocative here, though also a bit unsettling at first, with the strange spatial effects presented. All the rest of the music and performances are festively joyous.



I do think that this SQ experience made me see why B probably preferred the quintet. His particular style seems less comfortable here within the confines of four strings. It may be my imagination, but I'd like to seek out the Boccherini g minor quintet for a compare.

btw- this group's HIPness really did make the SQ sound more "baroque" to me, and I kept envisioning what a modern quartet (the Peterson play this SQ on their cd) would sound like. I don't know if I like the Biondi type of uber HIPness (the Salomon seem "mellower" in their overall stance, for instance). It IS very sweet (in the good way), I mean, he has quite a vision,...I'm just wondering if his vision is saying as much as the music? And yes, after this cd, I felt like standing with Herman and saying, "If I hear one more SQ with no vibrato I'm going to scream." I just can't help but hear Xenakis when I hear that buzzing diamond point sound of perfectly straight lines.

Someone around here looooooves Biondi. I'm simply asking if the extreme no-vibrato effect (and it IS an effect, to be sure,... or, a very specific perception) is what the wigs were after? The Nomos, in their Haydn Op.50, play pretty HIPly, with no "real" vibrato, but Biondi seems in absolute Xenakis territory (scientific straightness). It sounds disconcerting in Xenakis, and it sounds disconcerting in Boccherini, IMHO. I do get over it, however, and I can still enjoy the music, but, I'm finding, for me, when it's this HIP, it seems like an obstacle to me, something to be overcome. Hmmm.
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