CPE Bach (Carl Philipp Emanuel)

[Jo498]

A few of the Hamburg string symphonies were among the first CPE Bach I encountered and they are still among my favorite pieces.
Haydn seems like a regular, well-behaved classicist compared to the quirkiness these string symphonies exhibit. They are also the pieces I'd recommend to snyppr; while no string quartets for a time it was not clear whether they were composed for solistic ensemble or small orchestra and the former was thought likely because of the difficulties.

As for the "Kenner & Liebhaber" Sonatas, I believe Spanyi recorded them as he recorded (or will be) virtually all keyboard pieces by CPE but they are not among the volumes included in the current sale. (I found that I have Vol.7 of the series and as I still don't really like the sound of the clavichord I am not in a hurry to get any more, I will probably get two vols. of the concertos instead)

[71 dB]

I have now listened to the whole 30 CD "Edition" Brilliant Classics box set. My least favorite disc of the set is disc number 25: "Sacred songs" These are effectively CPE Bach's lieds and I'm not much of a lied man. Also, the 4 last discs "Sacret choral music I-IV" are disappointing in the way that CPE Bach completely pales compared to his father when it comes to cantatas. Cantatas weren't his thing. His Magnificat in D, Wq. 215 is however a great work and I have to say the short cantata "Heilig", Wq. 217 is good. Otherwise I found the cantatas boring.

CPE Bach's symphonies, concertos, chamber music and solo keyboard music is impressive. Now I know! 

[SonicMan46]

I have now listened to the whole 30 CD "Edition" Brilliant Classics box set. My least favorite disc of the set is disc number 25: "Sacred songs" These are effectively CPE Bach's lieds and I'm not much of a lied man. Also, the 4 last discs "Sacret choral music I-IV" are disappointing in the way that CPE Bach completely pales compared to his father when it comes to cantatas. Cantatas weren't his thing. His Magnificat in D, Wq. 215 is however a great work and I have to say the short cantata "Heilig", Wq. 217 is good. Otherwise I found the cantatas boring.

CPE Bach's symphonies, concertos, chamber music and solo keyboard music is impressive. Now I know! 

Glad that you enjoyed!   Of all of CPE Bach's discs in my collection, the only 'vocal' CD that I own is the Magnificat - NOW, as to his father, dozens of JS's choral works!  Dave

[71 dB]

Glad that you enjoyed!   Of all of CPE Bach's discs in my collection, the only 'vocal' CD that I own is the Magnificat - NOW, as to his father, dozens of JS's choral works!  Dave

Thanks Dave.  Looks like your one and only C.P.E. Bach vocal CD is the right choice (given the performance is good that is).

Who doesn't have tons of J.S. Bach's choral works/cantatas? 

[Que]

Earlier posted on the listening thread:

[asin]B019G8SRF6[/asin]
Now my impressions are more settled some of my impresions.
The main drawback here is the overalll soundpicture, for two reasons:
1. The instrument, a pianoforte by Kerstin Zchwarz after a 1749 Silbermann, has been recorded too spaciously - either by too much distance or a too large or too resonant space.
2. The instrument has been ill prepared. If you listen closely, you will notice that one of the strings keeps on resonating long after the key was struck. This produces a distracting "zing" throughout the performance, particularly noticeable during the pauses..

This kind of spoils an admirable performance of delightful music by a brilliant performer.
Why Brilliant, why?  Such a waste....

Even still, I find the recording still enjoyable and ultimately it wouldn't deter me from playing it.
But it could better...  

Q

[71 dB]

I find the lists of works by CPE Bach confusing. With his dad, we have BWV numbering, but with CPE we have Wq and H numbering. CPE also made flute concertos of his keyboard concertos and what's not. It does not help he was very prolific. Frankly, I don't know how to explore him further.

If I am correct I have all of his symphonies except Berlin Symphony in D Major, Wq 176 missing in the Brilliant Classics box set.

Really annoying how Wq and H numbering are used. Sometimes both, sometimes not. Brilliant Classics and http://cpebach.org/ don't even agree about everything! Flute concertos got me cratching my head! H 416, H 484.1, Wq 169 Wq 166, 167, 168 versus Wq164*, Wq22, Wq165*, Wq167, Wq168 and Wq169. * orig Oboe Concertos. Why record those and omid other listed flute concertos? So weird!

What is H 484.1? Wq22 is keyboard concerto It's really difficult to put pieces together

Maybe I should just enjoy the music and ignore the numbers... 

[Jo498]

yes, it is very confusing. One additional complication is that the Wq numbers have subdivisions, e.g. the 6 most famous keyboard concerti composed in Hamburg are Wq 43,1-6. And most of the solo keyboard pieces are also arranged like that. That's why there are many more H numbers than Wq.
I have no clue about the solo keyboard stuff. The BIS series is at 30+ CDs for solo and about 20 for the keyboard concerti (there are more than 50 as well as a few double concertos and pieces called "sonatinas" but hardly different in scale from the concertos proper).

Symphonies I have (all #s Wotquenne)

173 G Remy, Akademie f. Alte Musik
174 C Haenchen, Remy
175 F Haenchen, Remy
177 e Dombrecht (177 and 178 are alternative versions, the first strings only)
178 e Haenchen, Remy, Akademie f. Alte Musik
179 E flat  Haenchen, Akademie f. Alte Musik
180 G Remy
181 Haenchen

182,1 Café Zimmermann
182,2 Akademie f. Alte Musik
182,3 Café Zimmermann, Freiburger/Hengelbrock
182,4 Freiburger/Hengelbrock
182,5 Café Zimmermann, Freiburger/Hengelbrock
182,6 Café Zimmermann, Akademie f. Alte Musik

183,1-4 Richter/DG Archiv, Koopman/Erato
183,2+3 Akademie f. Alte Musik


So unless I missed it I do not have Wq 176 either. Overall, I think the 10 Hamburg symphonies Wq 182 and 183 are more interesting than the earlier Berlin symphonies anyway, so I am not exactly going out of my way to get the missing one.

I recently figured out the correspondences between cello, flute and keyboard versions of the concertos that exist for different instruments but I cannot find my notes.

Is anyone familiar with the organ sonatas? There are apparently recordings by Koopman and Tachezi of 6 organ sonatas? Are those versions of clavichord/harpsichord sonatas or genuine organ pieces with pedal parts?

[Jo498]

here is a fairly expansive worklist, following the Wotquenne numbers

http://www.klassika.info/Komponisten/Bach_CPE/wv_wvz1.html

and here the (Helm) H. numbers

http://www.klassika.info//Komponisten/Bach_CPE/wv_wvz2.html#Wq_166

[71 dB]

yes, it is very confusing. One additional complication is that the Wq numbers have subdivisions, e.g. the 6 most famous keyboard concerti composed in Hamburg are Wq 43,1-6. And most of the solo keyboard pieces are also arranged like that.

These subdivisions actually help as they bundle related works together.

I have no clue about the solo keyboard stuff. The BIS series is at 30+ CDs for solo and about 20 for the keyboard concerti (there are more than 50 as well as a few double concertos and pieces called "sonatinas" but hardly different in scale from the concertos proper).

I just ordered a few days ago volume 11 of the solo keyboard series (was rather cheap). Some 15 years ago I bought Volume 7 of the Keyboard Concerto series. Collecting all the volumes seems scary, financially that is...

Symphonies I have (all #s Wotquenne)

173 G Remy, Akademie f. Alte Musik
174 C Haenchen, Remy
175 F Haenchen, Remy
177 e Dombrecht (177 and 178 are alternative versions, the first strings only)
178 e Haenchen, Remy, Akademie f. Alte Musik
179 E flat  Haenchen, Akademie f. Alte Musik
180 G Remy
181 Haenchen

182,1 Café Zimmermann
182,2 Akademie f. Alte Musik
182,3 Café Zimmermann, Freiburger/Hengelbrock
182,4 Freiburger/Hengelbrock
182,5 Café Zimmermann, Freiburger/Hengelbrock
182,6 Café Zimmermann, Akademie f. Alte Musik

183,1-4 Richter/DG Archiv, Koopman/Erato
183,2+3 Akademie f. Alte Musik

I have two Naxos discs and the Brilliant Classics 30 CD box to cover the symphonies (so I have the ten "182" and "183" symphonies twice).

So unless I missed it I do not have Wq 176 either. Overall, I think the 10 Hamburg symphonies Wq 182 and 183 are more interesting than the earlier Berlin symphonies anyway, so I am not exactly going out of my way to get the missing one.

I like both Berlin and Hamburg stuff, but yes, Wq 182 and 183 seems better. I'd say CPE's Berlin stuff is more beautiful and Hamburg stuff more adventurous.

here is a fairly expansive worklist, following the Wotquenne numbers

http://www.klassika.info/Komponisten/Bach_CPE/wv_wvz1.html

and here the (Helm) H. numbers

http://www.klassika.info//Komponisten/Bach_CPE/wv_wvz2.html#Wq_166

Oh, that looks good. Many thanks! 

[71 dB]

Listening to this (arrived yesterday):

[asin]B000088SVV[/asin]

If the CPO Kuhnau disc of the same order was disappointing (bad sound engineering), this one is very good.
I'm enjoying this cd a lot. Considering this twofer was only 8 euros and I had a -20 % discount voucher, this was a great deal!  0:)

[Gurn Blanston]

Listening to this (arrived yesterday):

[asin]B000088SVV[/asin]

If the CPO Kuhnau disc of the same order was disappointing (bad sound engineering), this one is very good.
I'm enjoying this cd a lot. Considering this twofer was only 8 euros and I had a -20 % discount voucher, this was a great deal!  0:)

Oh man, you lucky rascal! I have been trying to buy that disk for several years now, but it never seems to be available at a combination of price and quality that I can live with. I have some low-res MP3 downloads of it, and am a big fan of Les Amis de Philippe, so if that link is still hot, I will snap it up.

[71 dB]

Oh man, you lucky rascal! I have been trying to buy that disk for several years now, but it never seems to be available at a combination of price and quality that I can live with. I have some low-res MP3 downloads of it, and am a big fan of Les Amis de Philippe, so if that link is still hot, I will snap it up.

Really? I never thought the set is that hard to get! 

Here:

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/Carl-Philipp-Emanuel-Bach-1714-1788-Triosonaten-Wq-144-151/hnum/7866113

[SonicMan46]

Really? I never thought the set is that hard to get! 

Here:

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/Carl-Philipp-Emanuel-Bach-1714-1788-Triosonaten-Wq-144-151/hnum/7866113

Hi Gurn - I agree w/ Poju, i.e. not that expensive for a 2-CD set - I bought off Amazon back in 2010 at a cost of $14 from the MP - the same price from a few suppliers as shown below; the link given above even a better deal (Euro & $ about the same at the moment), if you can add enough to balance the shipping charge from JPC.  Dave

[Gurn Blanston]

Hi Gurn - I agree w/ Poju, i.e. not that expensive for a 2-CD set - I bought off Amazon back in 2010 at a cost of $14 from the MP - the same price from a few suppliers as shown below; the link given above even a better deal (Euro & $ about the same at the moment), if you can add enough to balance the shipping charge from JPC.  Dave

I went looking for it 2 or 3 times back a few years ago, and they never had it, just some AMP sellers wanting way too much. I had forgotten about it recently, until Poju posted it today. Apparently it is back and readily available again. It is a 2003 release, so I guess it is more of a return to circulation.

[71 dB]

I went looking for it 2 or 3 times back a few years ago, and they never had it, just some AMP sellers wanting way too much. I had forgotten about it recently, until Poju posted it today. Apparently it is back and readily available again. It is a 2003 release, so I guess it is more of a return to circulation.

JPC shipping cost to US is 12.99 euros, which is much more than to Finland (5.99 €). In my case I was able to divide the shipping cost over several cds and together with the 20 % discount voucher I efectively paid 7,34 euros (about $7.75) for the twofer. 

AMP sellers have it for $7.75 used and $10.18 new (+shipping).

Hopefully the time has come for you to finally get it. 

[Jo498]

Some of these trio sonatas are fairly early, some might even have been composed together with his father as exercises. But it is certainly a top recording with the two Manfredos [no offense but that name is funny to me as the latin american/italian version of a German name (Manfred) and the latter used to be very common among men born in the 50s and 60s and is (especially as "Mannie") somehow associated with prole comedy characters since a few silly 1990s movies or sketches] on flute and violin as well as CPE champion Remy.
cpo has another disc with "piano trios" (Trio 1790) that is far more "modern" and the justly most famous chamber music of CPE are the highly original late "quartets" for flute, viola and keyboard (quartet because the keyboard counts as two voices)

[Que]

I went looking for it 2 or 3 times back a few years ago, and they never had it, just some AMP sellers wanting way too much. I had forgotten about it recently, until Poju posted it today. Apparently it is back and readily available again. It is a 2003 release, so I guess it is more of a return to circulation.

Go for it!!  Love that stuff...

And where the H@%# is BIS with those huge delightfull CPE box sets they are keeping us waiting for?? 

Q

[71 dB]

cpo has another disc with "piano trios" (Trio 1790) that is far more "modern" and the justly most famous chamber music of CPE are the highly original late "quartets" for flute, viola and keyboard (quartet because the keyboard counts as two voices)

I have had that "other" disc for ages and it a good, but I think I prefer this twofer. I am fond of early C.P.E. Bach. 

[SurprisedByBeauty]

Classical CD Of The Week: C-P-Eppreciation! Or: The Rescue For Bach Junior

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2017/03/01/classical-cd-of-the-week-c-p-eppreciation-or-the-rescue-for-bach-junior/

[mc ukrneal]

Classical CD Of The Week: C-P-Eppreciation! Or: The Rescue For Bach Junior

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2017/03/01/classical-cd-of-the-week-c-p-eppreciation-or-the-rescue-for-bach-junior/

I agree with you. It took me a disc or two to get used to the sound and style of CPE, but once I did, I could hardly put them down. I listened to them one after another, and never really found myself tired or 'needing a change'. Great set.