Author Topic: Friedrich Gernsheim (1839-1916)  (Read 5939 times)

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Chafing Dish

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Friedrich Gernsheim (1839-1916)
« on: February 15, 2009, 05:28:48 PM »
Anyone know about this composer? I have seen a few scores and am intrigued. It's not the least imaginative chamber music I've ever seen.

AFAIK my library contains 0 recordings and I'm wondering if I should convince them to order something... the four Symphonies seem to be available on Arte Nova, and more scores at the IMSLP.org

Thanks for any tips

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Friedrich Gernsheim (1839-1916)
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2009, 05:35:51 PM »
Yes, I have this disk:



and find it to be a most enjoyable listening experience. The music is reminiscent of Mendelssohn and other Middle Romantic composers, with nice dramatic touches and plenty of forward momentum. Good horn parts too, if you like horns as I do. If the music of that era intrigues you, you won't be disappointed. :)

8)

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Quartetto Italiano - Bia 830-2 Op 130 Quartet #13 in Bb for Strings 1st mvmt - Adagio ma non troppo - Allegro
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Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Friedrich Gernsheim (1839-1916)
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2009, 05:49:16 PM »
Yes, I have this disk:

 

and find it to be a most enjoyable listening experience. The music is reminiscent of Mendelssohn and other Middle Romantic composers.....

Also own the same 'double-disc' set described by Gurn; in addition, I have a Cello Concerto set (pic inserted above) w/ a work by the same composer - have not really checked into other offerings since these purchases -  :)

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Friedrich Gernsheim (1839-1916)
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2009, 05:52:05 PM »
Unfortunately, Dave, I haven't seen a lot of other offerings :-\  Chafe mentions chamber music, for example, but I don't see a sale listing for any. Damn the bad luck, you know me and chamber music! :)

8)

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Listening to:
Quartetto Italiano - Bia 830-2 Op 130 Quartet #13 in Bb for Strings 4th mvmt - Alla danza tedesca: Allegro assai
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Offline Lethevich

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Re: Friedrich Gernsheim (1839-1916)
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2009, 06:07:17 PM »
Yes, I have this disk:



and find it to be a most enjoyable listening experience. The music is reminiscent of Mendelssohn and other Middle Romantic composers, with nice dramatic touches and plenty of forward momentum. Good horn parts too, if you like horns as I do. If the music of that era intrigues you, you won't be disappointed. :)

Thanks for putting that back on my radar. I heard it once and something about it bored me to tears, I think a reappraisal is due...
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Friedrich Gernsheim (1839-1916)
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2009, 06:08:54 PM »
Thanks for putting that back on my radar. I heard it once and something about it bored me to tears, I think a reappraisal is due...

It's a big chunk of music to just sit and listen to the whole thing. I generally listen to one or another of them at a time. Works a lot better that way, at least for me. :)

8)

----------------
Listening to:
Quartetto Italiano - Bia 830-2 Op 130 Quartet #13 in Bb for Strings 6th mvmt - Große Fuge: Overtura: Allegro - Meno mosso e moderato - Allegro - Fuga: [Allegro] - Meno mosso e moderato - Allegro molto e con brio - Allegro
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Chafing Dish

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Re: Friedrich Gernsheim (1839-1916)
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2009, 06:52:01 PM »
A brief update to say that I've located the 4 symphonies in score in my library. I checked them out and will pore through them.

Also the String Quartet in A major, but not a score, just the parts. (Grump)

Harry

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Re: Friedrich Gernsheim (1839-1916)
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2009, 12:03:42 AM »
The Gernsheim Symphonies need repeated listenings, before you get the hang of it. Complicated thickly scored works, with more than a hint from Brahms and Schumann to be found.
In some parts original, but if not great music, its interesting nevertheless.

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Friedrich Gernsheim (1839-1916)
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2009, 07:32:30 AM »
Unfortunately, Dave, I haven't seen a lot of other offerings :-\  Chafe mentions chamber music, for example, but I don't see a sale listing for any. Damn the bad luck, you know me and chamber music! :)


Well, Gurn, you & I both concerning chamber works!  Just getting back online this morning and checking over in Amazon, 'slim pickings'!  There is a CD being offered for $20 (by Amazon) w/ one Brahms & one Gernsheim String Quartet - I'd rather have all Gernsheim - oh well,  :-\
« Last Edit: February 16, 2009, 02:48:13 PM by SonicMan »

Chafing Dish

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Re: Friedrich Gernsheim (1839-1916)
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2009, 12:02:43 PM »
A few enticing examples to be found on http://www.editionsilvertrust.com/music-books-a-to-g.htm

eyeresist

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Re: Friedrich Gernsheim (1839-1916)
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2009, 05:39:02 PM »
I have the symphonies on Arte Nova. It's an inexpensive way to get acquainted with the lesser symphonists of that period, but hardly essential.

Offline Chafing Dish

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Re: Friedrich Gernsheim (1839-1916)
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2009, 06:52:22 AM »
Just a quick note even at the risk of appearing to be a 'Johnny one-note'

I have been listening to the Gernsheim symphonies on cpo ARTE nova. They are the works of a real craftsman, but I don't see what distinguishes him from Brahms.

Not that this makes him inconsequential... but if I wanted Brahms symphonies 5-8, I would have kept Brahms alive a little longer.

Let me put it another way. The liner notes of the CD, as well as the programme notes in the scores, indicate (in response to people like me) that he has a 'distinct' voice and should not be thought of as a mere Brahms epigone. Oddly enough, I need more evidence than the music itself to concur with that.

 ???
« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 08:01:27 AM by Chafing Dish »

Offline Dundonnell

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Re: Friedrich Gernsheim (1839-1916)
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2009, 07:34:32 AM »
Just a quick note even at the risk of appearing to be a 'Johnny one-note'

I have been listening to the Gernsheim symphonies on cpo. They are the works of a real craftsman, but I don't see what distinguishes him from Brahms.

Not that this makes him inconsequential... but if I wanted Brahms symphonies 5-8, I would have kept Brahms alive a little longer.

Let me put it another way. The liner notes of the CD, as well as the programme notes in the scores, indicate (in response to people like me) that he has a 'distinct' voice and should not be thought of as a mere Brahms epigone. Oddly enough, I need more evidence than the music itself to concur with that.

 ???

Completely agree....but then I am not sold on Raff either :)

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Friedrich Gernsheim (1839-1916)
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2010, 12:01:08 PM »
Just TTT!  ;D  Seems to be increased interest in this composer and since my last comments, I've acquired the two chamber discs shown below - although I like his Symphonies, these 'small group' compositions are quite excellent, and will likely bring Gernsheim some belated respect - this is well-crafted Romantic music -  :)

 

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Friedrich Gernsheim (1839-1916)
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2010, 12:10:41 PM »
Also, I was just curious 'how much' Gernsheim had composed - below obtained from his Wiki article HERE - would be curious about seeing some of his other chamber music recorded - not much more on Amazon USA other than what I now own (i.e. 3+ CDs; works 'in bold') -  :D

    * Orchestral works
          o Symphonies
                + Symphony no. 1 in G minor, op. 32, 1875
                + Symphony no. 2 in E♭ major, op. 46, 1882[2]
                + Symphony no. 3 in C minor ('Miriam' or 'Mirjam'), op. 54, 1887
                + Symphony no. 4 in B♭ major, op. 62, 1895[3]

          o Piano Concertos
                + Piano Concerto in C minor, op. 16
          o Violin Concertos
                + Violin Concerto no. 1 in D major, op. 42
                + Violin Concerto no. 2 in F, op. 86
                + Fantasy Piece for violin with orchestra, op. 33
          o Cello Concertos
                + Cello Concerto in E minor, op. 78

          o Divertimento, op. 53
    * Chamber music
          o String Quartets
                + String Quartet no. 1 in C minor, op. 25
                + String Quartet no. 2 in A minor, op. 31, 1875 (recorded on Audite)
                + String Quartet no. 3 in F major, op. 51, 1886
                + String Quartet no. 4 in E minor, op. 66
                + String Quartet no. 5 in A major, op. 83
          o Piano Quartets
                + Piano Quartet no. 1 in E♭, op. 6
                + Piano Quartet no. 2 in C minor, op. 20
                + Piano Quartet no. 3 in F major, op. 47, 1883
          o Piano Quintets
                + Piano Quintet no. 1 in D minor, op. 35
                + Piano Quintet no. 2 in B minor, op. 63, pub. ca. 1897

          o String Quintets
                + String Quintet no. 1 in D major, op. 9
                + String Quintet no. 2 in E♭ major, op. 89
          o Violin sonatas
                + Violin sonata no. 1 in C minor, op. 4, pub. ca. 1864
                + Violin sonata no. 2 in C, op. 50, pub. ca. 1885
                + Violin sonata no. 3 in F, op. 64, pub. ca. 1898
                + Violin sonata no. 4 in G, op. 85
          o Piano trios
                + Piano trio no. 1 in F, op. 28
                + Piano trio no. 2 in B, op. 37
                + Two other piano trios, in manuscript
          o Cello sonatas
                + Cello sonata no. 1 in D minor, op. 12
                + Cello sonata no. 2 in E minor, op. 87[8]
          o Piano sonata
                + Piano sonata in F minor, op. 1
          o Organ
                + Fantasy and Fugue for Organ, op. 76 [9]
          o Other chamber music
                + Introduction and Allegro appassionato, op. 38 [9]
    * Choral works and orchestral works
         

Franco

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Re: Friedrich Gernsheim (1839-1916)
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2010, 12:32:28 PM »
I liked his Joker on the old Batman TV series.  Or was it the Riddler?

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Friedrich Gernsheim (1839-1916)
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2010, 12:54:03 PM »
I liked his Joker on the old Batman TV series.  Or was it the Riddler?

LOL!  ;D  Same initials -  8)  Frank Gorshin (1933-2005) as the Riddler - when I was an undergrad student at the U of Michigan in the 1960s, the TV room in the dorm would fill up when that series came on - remember it well!  :D



Offline Scion7

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Re: Friedrich Gernsheim (1839-1916)
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2014, 01:50:19 AM »
An excellent composer in the Schumann-Brahmsian mold.    :)
In 1877 he married Helene Hernsheim from Karlsruhe.
His music was admired by his contemporaries, Brahms, Bruch, Mahler, Clara Schumann, and many others.
Due to his Jewish background, his work was banned in Nazi Germany, and his papers and a biography written on him by Karl Holl were removed from music libraries.

 

Chamber Music                                                                               Piano Music
==================================                          =================================

Divertimento, fl, 2 vn, va, vc, db, E, op.53;                                        Sonata in f, Op.1
                                                                                                     Variations
String Quartet no. 1 in C minor, op. 25                                             Prelude
String Quartet no. 2 in A minor, op. 31, 1875 (recorded on Audite)       Suite
String Quartet no. 3 in F major, op. 51, 1886                                      Romance
String Quartet no. 4 in E minor, op. 66
String Quartet no. 5 in A major, op. 83 (Republished recently by Walter Wollenweber-Verlag, pub. originally ca 1911.)
 
Piano Quartet no. 1 in Eb, op. 6
Piano Quartet no. 2 in C minor, op. 20 (performed in 2003. Pub. ca. 1870.)
Piano Quartet no. 3 in F major, op. 47, 1883
 
Piano Quintet no. 1 in D minor, op. 35
Piano Quintet no. 2 in B minor, op. 63, pub. ca. 1897 (definitely by 1898 - see review)
String Quintets
String Quintet no. 1 in D major, op. 9
String Quintet no. 2 in Eb major, op. 89 (Two-cello quintet. Given its modern premiere in 2003 along with his string trio op. 74.)
 
Violin sonata no. 1 in C minor, op. 4, pub. ca. 1864
Violin sonata no. 2 in C, op. 50, pub. ca. 1885
Violin sonata no. 3 in F, op. 64, pub. ca. 1898
Violin sonata no. 4 in G, op. 85

Piano trio no. 1 in F, op. 28
Piano trio no. 2 in B, op. 37
Two other piano trios, in manuscript (search at the Altenberg Trio site. #2 in B is in their repertoire.)
 
Cello sonata no. 1 in D minor, op. 12
Cello sonata no. 2 in E minor, op. 79
Cello sonata no. 3 in E minor, op. 87

Introduction and Allegro appassionato, vn, pf, op.38;
Andante and Andantino, vn, pf, 1853, 1893, both unpubd;

Orchestral                                                                                                                       Organ
===================================================                     =============================


Piano Concerto in c, Op.16                                                                                                Fantasia & Fugue, Op.76
Violin Concerto in e, Op.78                                                                                                Prelude & Fugue, 1904
Zu einem Drama, sym. poem, op.82;
In memoriam, ein Klagegesang, str orch, org, op.91
Fantasy Piece for Violin & Orchestra, Op.33                                                                        Choral
Elohenu, for Cello & Orchestra  1882                                                                                  ===========================
Symphony #1 in g, Op.32                                                                                                 Agrippina, Op.77
Symphony #2 in E, Op.46                                                                                                Salamis, for men's chorus and orchestra Op.10
Symphony #3 in c, Op.54 'Mirjam'                                                                                    Nornen wiegenlied, Op.65
Symphony #3 in B, Op.62                                                                                                Nibelungen wiederfahrt, Op.73



« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 02:45:34 AM by Scion7 »
Your barricades lie broken ... your enemies lord.

Offline amw

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Re: Friedrich Gernsheim (1839-1916)
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2014, 01:59:29 AM »
I have been listening to the Gernsheim symphonies on cpo ARTE nova. They are the works of a real craftsman, but I don't see what distinguishes him from Brahms.

Not that this makes him inconsequential... but if I wanted Brahms symphonies 5-8, I would have kept Brahms alive a little longer.

The symphonies are basically Brahms epigone material, yes—specifically, imitations of Brahms's 1st and its "big tune". (Though I am rather fond of G's 4th)

A work that seems more interesting and original to me, at first glance anyway, is the fourth Violin Sonata Op. 85, which suggests that in addition to Brahms and Mendelssohn Gernsheim absorbed no small amount of the influence of Wagner. (Check out the score on IMSLP) It can be heard on a Brilliant 2fer of all four sonatas, as well as a SWR release with Hummel and Schubert. Gernsheim's other late compositions, e.g. the later cello sonatas and concerto, may also be worth examination, but I don't know them yet.

Offline Scion7

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Re: Friedrich Gernsheim (1839-1916)
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2014, 02:30:25 AM »
Gernsheim's first symphony was published before Brahms' first.
Gernsheim's 2nd symphony has an obvious homage to his great friend, Brahms, in its first movement before moving off into its own path.
The oft-opined view that there were "imitations" in this symphony to Brahms' third, is, of course, untrue - Brahms had not yet started his 3rd symphony.

« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 02:48:47 AM by Scion7 »
Your barricades lie broken ... your enemies lord.