Author Topic: Gurn's Classical Corner  (Read 461061 times)

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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #3260 on: September 14, 2016, 05:23:34 AM »
Thank you both.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/3ee0rwFaSsE" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/3ee0rwFaSsE</a>

Thanks Karl, very nice!

8)
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Offline Jo498

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #3261 on: September 14, 2016, 05:51:49 AM »
Actually the rules in Salzburg were more like 25-30 minutes of music at most for mass (cf. e.g. KV 317) with some exceptions for the elaborate festive masses. (But the c minor fragment might have never been performed; it lasts almost an hour and a complete mass would have been 80 min. I guess)
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Florestan

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #3262 on: September 14, 2016, 06:04:52 AM »
I should check out that Gardiner you mentioned, I like them generally.

I mentioned no Gardiner.  :D

This is what I mentioned:

Thank you both.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/3ee0rwFaSsE" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/3ee0rwFaSsE</a>

"In Heaven I shall hear again." - Beethoven

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #3263 on: September 14, 2016, 06:21:04 AM »
Actually the rules in Salzburg were more like 25-30 minutes of music at most for mass (cf. e.g. KV 317) with some exceptions for the elaborate festive masses. (But the c minor fragment might have never been performed; it lasts almost an hour and a complete mass would have been 80 min. I guess)

Yes, I couldn't remember the exact number, but it was tiny compared to Vienna. They clearly had to zip right along to include all of the music in an average mass. Just as an aside, the Archbishop also didn't allow "telescoping" the Kyrie and Gloria movements, so when they performed Joseph Haydn's missa brevis to St John of God, for example, Michael Haydn needed to take the Gloria and "unzip" it, as it were, into a full sized Gloria. That sort of thing can have only added to teh temporal pressure the musicians felt. :)

8)

PS - the mass lasted longer than the music. Just sayin'
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Offline Jo498

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #3264 on: September 16, 2016, 11:47:18 PM »
Last week I got this disc with 4 quartets (harpsichord+strings op.7,1-3 and op.14,1 - it's a wonderful disc but quite short <60 min) by Johann Schobert, a German early classical composer who died in 1767 from mushroom poisoning (together with several friends and family members). His life is poorly documented; his birth year is usually given as 1735 making him a contemporary of Haydn and the youngest Bach son, but one also finds 1720 and as late as 1740. (His birthplace is also unknown, most likely seems Silesia, but Nuremberg or the Alsace region are also possible. From about 1760 until his death he lived in Paris and worked at the court of Louis XV.) In any case the music was probably written in the early/mid 1760s. I find them quite remarkable. They are within the "gallant"/early classical style but more expressive than your standard rococo (e.g. Joh. Chr. Bach) and also more "fully voiced" than simplistic melody+accompaniment. Anyone who likes early/middle Haydn should give them a try. Brosse has another disc with trios but this was too expensive for me and there is another recital with quartets and trios on harmonia mundi.



« Last Edit: September 17, 2016, 11:40:34 AM by Jo498 »
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #3265 on: September 17, 2016, 07:18:17 AM »
Last week I got this disc with 4 quartets (harpsichord+strings) by Johann Schobert, a German early classical composer who died in 1767 from mushroom poisoning (together with several friends and family members). His life is poorly documented; his birth year is usually given as 1735 making him a contemporary of Haydn and the youngest Bach son, but one also finds 1720 and as late as 1740. (His birthplace is also unknown, most likely seems Silesia, but Nuremberg or the Alsace region are also possible. From about 1760 until his death he lived in Paris and worked at the court of Louis XV.) In any case the music was probably written in the early/mid 1760s. I find them quite remarkable. They are within the "gallant"/early classical style but more expressive than your standard rococo (e.g. Joh. Chr. Bach) and also more "fully voiced" than simplistic melody+accompaniment. Anyone who likes early/middle Haydn should give them a try. Brosse has another disc with trios but this was too expensive for me and there is another recital with quartets and trios on harmonia mundi.

Boy, I've not thought about Johann Schobert (c. 1735-1767) in a while but remember the mushroom poisoning - those Quartet discs look interesting - I have just the two CDs shown below and will put them on today for a listen.  Dave :)

   

Offline Florestan

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #3266 on: September 17, 2016, 11:56:21 PM »





I have all three of them (plus the two below) and I strongly second the recommendation.


"In Heaven I shall hear again." - Beethoven

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #3267 on: September 18, 2016, 05:43:43 AM »
I have all three of them (plus the two below) and I strongly second the recommendation.



I really like the looks of this one, it would fit very well into my sonatas collection. I know Schobert from yet another disk, not shown here, by the Four Nations Ensemble on Gaudeamus of 4 trio sonatas of Opus 16, as well as the Banchini disk. Adding in that solo sonatas on hammerflügel would be perfect! :)

8)

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Offline Florestan

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #3268 on: September 18, 2016, 06:09:05 AM »
Well, just today I´ve got a new one:



 :D 8)
"In Heaven I shall hear again." - Beethoven

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #3269 on: September 18, 2016, 07:20:24 AM »
Well, just today I´ve got a new one:



 :D 8)

Nice. Are you streaming those or downloading, or do you actually find the disk somewhere? I ask because finding the disk somewhere can be a bitch!  For example, on your earlier post, I googled "mario martinoli schobert amazon" and literally every Amazon in the world except Amazon USA came up with it. The only US outlet I could fins was CDUniverse and they were backordering it. I know I can be more cosmopolitan and order from The World, but it is nice not to have to. *sigh*.  I know, I'm just a whiner. Well, hard cheese. >:(   :)

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Offline Jo498

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #3270 on: September 18, 2016, 07:20:52 AM »
Are the ASV issues certainly post-bronzing era? I have become wary about used ASV and hyperion discs unless I am completely sure they are sufficiently recent issues not to suffer from the bronzing problem.

There is also a disc with keyboard sonatas by Brigitte Haudebourg who apparently recorded quite a bit of lesser known 18th century keyboard music (also Benda, Kozeluch, Mehul, Eckard... some names I never encountered before).



In any case it is a pity that of the little Schobert there is most is expensive and/or out of print.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Florestan

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #3271 on: September 19, 2016, 05:24:01 AM »
Cross post from WAYLT. Not strictly Classical but I´ll take the risk of being rebuked.  :)






Having listened to PCs 1, 3 and 4 I think Schumann´s harsh judgment on Herz is unfair, and probably biased. There´s drama in the first movements, lyricism and poetry aplenty in the slow movements and infectious, ebullient jollity in the finales. What is conspicuously lacking is any pretension to, or attempt at, profound philosophy and deep psychology --- and all the better, I say. I think Gurn would like them just as much as I did.



"In Heaven I shall hear again." - Beethoven

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #3272 on: September 19, 2016, 07:20:47 AM »
Are the ASV issues certainly post-bronzing era? I have become wary about used ASV and hyperion discs unless I am completely sure they are sufficiently recent issues not to suffer from the bronzing problem.

There is also a disc with keyboard sonatas by Brigitte Haudebourg who apparently recorded quite a bit of lesser known 18th century keyboard music (also Benda, Kozeluch, Mehul, Eckard... some names I never encountered before).



In any case it is a pity that of the little Schobert there is most is expensive and/or out of print.

The one of Opus 16 that I posted I bought brand new in 2004 or 05, and I am pretty sure this was later than the Bronze Age.  Mine still looks brand new. The only problems I've ever had with bronzing came from Hyperion. Since the disk(s) I had problems with were now OOP, they sent me FLAC's of them, and I burned a disk and put in the jewel boxes. Not the ideal solution, but better than a sharp stick in the eye, which is what I had expected. I hate bronzing...  >:( 

8)
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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #3273 on: September 19, 2016, 07:21:42 AM »
Cross post from WAYLT. Not strictly Classical but I´ll take the risk of being rebuked.  :)

Having listened to PCs 1, 3 and 4 I think Schumann´s harsh judgment on Herz is unfair, and probably biased. There´s drama in the first movements, lyricism and poetry aplenty in the slow movements and infectious, ebullient jollity in the finales. What is conspicuously lacking is any pretension to, or attempt at, profound philosophy and deep psychology --- and all the better, I say. I think Gurn would like them just as much as I did.

Probably would be too prolix for me, although I like a good tune as much as anyone.  :)

8)
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Offline Jo498

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #3274 on: September 19, 2016, 07:27:33 AM »
bronzing is only until mid-1990s or so, anything post 2000 should certainly be safe. But I recently managed to get an ASV disc used (Haydn quartets with Lindays Q) that was bronzed. I had thought that the disc would be newer than it actually was and had forgotten about bronzing having affected also ASV in the 1990s...
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Florestan

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #3275 on: September 19, 2016, 07:38:02 AM »
Probably would be too prolix for me, although I like a good tune as much as anyone.  :)

8)

Well, here are some timings:

Piano Concerto no. 5 in F minor op. 180 - 15:59
Piano Concerto no. 7 in B minor op. 207 - 17:50
Piano Concerto no. 8 in A-flat major op. 217 - 14:14

Mozart is way more prolix than that.  :D
"In Heaven I shall hear again." - Beethoven

Offline Florestan

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #3276 on: September 20, 2016, 12:01:58 AM »
This is a peach.



All three are exquisite but the second divertimento is deliciously hilarious, or hilariously delicious: the very idea of ending a Viennese divertimento with a kazatchok is so incongruous as to already provoke laughter. As for the movement itself, it is guaranteed to bring the house down in a general outburst of good clean fun.

Highly recommended.
"In Heaven I shall hear again." - Beethoven

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #3277 on: September 20, 2016, 06:42:49 AM »
This is a peach.

 

All three are exquisite but the second divertimento is deliciously hilarious, or hilariously delicious: the very idea of ending a Viennese divertimento with a kazatchok is so incongruous as to already provoke laughter. As for the movement itself, it is guaranteed to bring the house down in a general outburst of good clean fun.

Highly recommended.

Need to 'pull out' my small Cartellieri collection - own about 7 discs, including the one shown above, left - interestingly, Dieter Klocker is on all except the Symphonies (added above for those interested in his non-windy orchestral music) - Dave :)

Offline Jo498

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #3278 on: December 03, 2016, 06:17:24 AM »
I finally found this very nice disc (the edition that does not show properly but the "white one" might be easier to find) at a good price. 3 string quartets by the Jadin brothers, the precocious Hyacinthe who died of tuberculosis at 24 (1776-1800) and his older brother Louis-Emmanuel who lived into his mid-80s (1768-1853!). Both wrote quite a bit more chamber music, most of which remains unrecorded to my knowledge.



I hope to get the harmonia mundi disc with Schobert chamber music and another one with music by Padre Soler today or in monday's post...
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 06:22:57 AM by Jo498 »
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #3279 on: December 03, 2016, 06:52:49 AM »
bronzing is only until mid-1990s or so, anything post 2000 should certainly be safe. But I recently managed to get an ASV disc used (Haydn quartets with Lindays Q) that was bronzed. I had thought that the disc would be newer than it actually was and had forgotten about bronzing having affected also ASV in the 1990s...

On that note, just last week I got an old Hyperion (English Orpheus Series) from ca 1995, which had only the lightest bronzing on the label side and none apparent on the playing side, and yet my computer drive couldn't even see it, while my player just put out a stream of static on top of the faintest background music. I am really nervous to take a chance on some of these older disks, which I would really hop on otherwise. :-\

8)
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