Author Topic: Segerstam- Symphony No.151 (out of 215 so far)  (Read 13094 times)

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Sean

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Segerstam- Symphony No.151 (out of 215 so far)
« on: February 22, 2009, 04:13:18 PM »
It's somewhere between distant reflections of Sibelius gestures and Lindbergian type dissonance, reasonably well controlled but ultimately testing the patience a bit. Another dead-end.

Online Cato

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Re: Segerstam- Symphony No.151 (out of 215 so far)
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2009, 06:37:04 PM »
                          $:)    $:)    $:)     $:)      $:)      $:)      $:)

 $:) $:) $:) Leif!  Leif Segerstam!    :o      We have you surrounded!!!   $:) $:) $:)

  $:)  $:)  Put down the pen and the music paper, and come out with your batons up!   $:)   $:)
                 
                       $:)       $:)       $:)       $:)       $:)         $:)
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karlhenning

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Re: Segerstam- Symphony No.151 (out of 215 so far)
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2009, 06:40:35 PM »
Sean, you do understand that Leif here is no microcosm of composition, today, generally?

Online Cato

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Re: Segerstam- Symphony No.151 (out of 215 so far)
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2009, 06:43:19 PM »
Sean, you do understand that Leif here is no microcosm of composition, today, generally?

On the other hand with 215 symphonies, old Leif can't be "micro" anything!   8)
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

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Sean

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Re: Segerstam- Symphony No.151 (out of 215 so far)
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2009, 06:53:33 PM »
Sean, you do understand that Leif here is no microcosm of composition, today, generally?

You'd be surprised what I do understand, and what I don't.

karlhenning

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Re: Segerstam- Symphony No.151 (out of 215 so far)
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2009, 07:06:39 PM »
You'd be surprised what I do understand, and what I don't.

Thanks for not answering  ;D

snyprrr

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Re: Segerstam- Symphony No.151 (out of 215 so far)
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2009, 10:31:50 PM »
i recently got the old bis recording of the string quartet No.6, which i believe, was his first composition in the "free-pulsative" style that has become his...thing. lief and mrs. segerstam, i believe, play the violins.

SEGERSTAM String quartet No.6 (1974):

I free-pulsatively 12,46
II free-pulsatively 11,12
III con moto 7,22
IV adagissimo con spirito di gustav mahler 12,08

i really didn't know quite what to expect (i used to have a few of the syms), but i knew it was gonna be kinda improvisatory. well, it kinda reminded me of death in venice, very mahlerian/romantic "conservative" material put through some post bergian molasses...ummm....kind of like four musicians "jamming" to late romantic melodic fragments.

don't get me wrong, there's really not much here. it's got the length of bloch's first great, inspired quartet, but has the more anonymous melodic curves of bloch's later chamber music.

the piece goes through 44min and four movements, and when you don't think you can stand any more 1974 sub mahler revival, the last movement,  starts as a nice mahlerian funeral dirge-and then!- out of no where,!!-the tragic low bass chord on a waiting piano comes crashing down, slowing interjecting as the movement dies away.

so, i gotta give it to him for his little surprise ending. now, i hated this piece as soon as i heard it, and what's worse is that it's been talking to me lately nd saying, "but you NEED an example of what was happening in the early 70s just to keep things in perspective." nothing sounds quite as depressing as improvised mahler jams from the 70s. so i was actually disappointed that the wild spacey stuff was missing here. i mean it really sounds like regular music, with notes, but you can tell that it's being "communed". i was actually happy about not thinking about segerstam before i saw this post,haha.

ok, the next rainy "allan pettersson" day, i'll try it again. either way, i'm leaning towards masterpiece......? i could almost bear to hear the seventh....soon after that though the quartets multiply exponentially just like the symphonies.

masterpiece i say

Sean

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Re: Segerstam- Symphony No.151 (out of 215 so far)
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2009, 10:58:34 PM »
i recently got the old bis recording of the string quartet No.6, which i believe, was his first composition in the "free-pulsative" style that has become his...thing. lief and mrs. segerstam, i believe, play the violins.

SEGERSTAM String quartet No.6 (1974):

I free-pulsatively 12,46
II free-pulsatively 11,12
III con moto 7,22
IV adagissimo con spirito di gustav mahler 12,08

i really didn't know quite what to expect (i used to have a few of the syms), but i knew it was gonna be kinda improvisatory. well, it kinda reminded me of death in venice, very mahlerian/romantic "conservative" material put through some post bergian molasses...ummm....kind of like four musicians "jamming" to late romantic melodic fragments.

don't get me wrong, there's really not much here. it's got the length of bloch's first great, inspired quartet, but has the more anonymous melodic curves of bloch's later chamber music.

the piece goes through 44min and four movements, and when you don't think you can stand any more 1974 sub mahler revival, the last movement,  starts as a nice mahlerian funeral dirge-and then!- out of no where,!!-the tragic low bass chord on a waiting piano comes crashing down, slowing interjecting as the movement dies away.

so, i gotta give it to him for his little surprise ending. now, i hated this piece as soon as i heard it, and what's worse is that it's been talking to me lately nd saying, "but you NEED an example of what was happening in the early 70s just to keep things in perspective." nothing sounds quite as depressing as improvised mahler jams from the 70s. so i was actually disappointed that the wild spacey stuff was missing here. i mean it really sounds like regular music, with notes, but you can tell that it's being "communed". i was actually happy about not thinking about segerstam before i saw this post,haha.

ok, the next rainy "allan pettersson" day, i'll try it again. either way, i'm leaning towards masterpiece......? i could almost bear to hear the seventh....soon after that though the quartets multiply exponentially just like the symphonies.

masterpiece i say

Great post, not someone coming to the defense of some obscurity but putting the boot in, all as required. Not sure about the Bloch comparisons but okay; I also agree with the Pettersson and his overhyped Seventh.

(You don't do capitals? Kind-of makes it easier to read, that's the idea of them...)

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: Segerstam- Symphony No.151 (out of 215 so far)
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2009, 03:34:15 PM »
....well, it kinda reminded me of death in venice, very mahlerian/romantic "conservative" material put through some post bergian molasses...ummm....kind of like four musicians "jamming" to late romantic melodic fragments.

Really? I'm sold. I've got to hear this.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Offline Guido

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Re: Segerstam- Symphony No.151 (out of 215 so far)
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2009, 05:54:05 PM »
Why does he bother with writing that many? Especially when they're all such anonymous, dull wank? It's clear that he expends a lot of effort on them, so why not focus that effort to try and create something original, concentrated and good as opposed to reams and reams and reams of wank? Someone should ask him.
Geologist.

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Offline Guido

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Re: Segerstam- Symphony No.151 (out of 215 so far)
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2009, 05:57:23 PM »
Also Sean... I think the reason that there seems to be a disproportionate amount obscurity praising is that the obscure stuff that we all hear that isn't so good just doesn't get mentioned. Unless something is really bad, it isn't fun to recount the dullness or unispiredness of some mediocrity or other.
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Offline Guido

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Re: Segerstam- Symphony No.151 (out of 215 so far)
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2009, 05:58:09 PM »
                          $:)    $:)    $:)     $:)      $:)      $:)      $:)

 $:) $:) $:) Leif!  Leif Segerstam!    :o      We have you surrounded!!!   $:) $:) $:)

  $:)  $:)  Put down the pen and the music paper, and come out with your batons up!   $:)   $:)
                 
                       $:)       $:)       $:)       $:)       $:)         $:)

Also this is the best use of emoticons I have ever seen. Great, great work!
Geologist.

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Re: Segerstam- Symphony No.151 (out of 215 so far)
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2009, 03:11:25 PM »
Why does he bother with writing that many? Especially when they're all such anonymous, dull wank? It's clear that he expends a lot of effort on them, so why not focus that effort to try and create something original, concentrated and good as opposed to reams and reams and reams of wank? Someone should ask him.

     I don't see it that way. Composers are as original as they can be, for the most part. And I'm not sure that a composer's output is more original if it's more "concentrated". And there are a few composers who don't try to be original as others might see it, because what they are hearing in their head isn't evaluated that way. They want to do that, however unoriginal someone else might think it is.
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Sean

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Re: Segerstam- Symphony No.151 (out of 215 so far)
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2009, 04:50:26 PM »
Also Sean... I think the reason that there seems to be a disproportionate amount obscurity praising is that the obscure stuff that we all hear that isn't so good just doesn't get mentioned. Unless something is really bad, it isn't fun to recount the dullness or unispiredness of some mediocrity or other.

Sure thing Guido. It's just me being bitter and twisted before my time.

Offline Guido

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Re: Segerstam- Symphony No.151 (out of 215 so far)
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2009, 05:51:05 PM »
     I don't see it that way. Composers are as original as they can be, for the most part. And I'm not sure that a composer's output is more original if it's more "concentrated". And there are a few composers who don't try to be original as others might see it, because what they are hearing in their head isn't evaluated that way. They want to do that, however unoriginal someone else might think it is.

But what I'm saying is that if he "only" wrote 50 and spent 5 times the effort on each he would no doubt have a much more satisfying body of works, no? Original only in terms of finding the most personal form of self expression rather than just whatever crap comes into his head. His pieces sound exactly as you'd imagine they would. There's something really grotesque to me about writing this many symphonies.
Geologist.

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snyprrr

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Re: Segerstam- Symphony No.151 (out of 215 so far)
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2009, 06:23:25 PM »
maybe each time he simply plays a different compositional "game" with the orchestra, just as a fun thing to do between composer and players, even if the results are always the same, however, segerstam does not really come off as a "concert goers be damned" kind of composer.

i mean, ac/dc has been making the same album for 30 years and people still love that. wow, if that's the comparison i have to make, oy!!!

lief- look at how many people are taking time out of their busy lives to discuss you. you are truly a blessed man!

greg

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Re: Segerstam- Symphony No.151 (out of 215 so far)
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2009, 07:47:57 PM »
I listened to one of his symphonies several months ago. I can't remember which one, but it was VERY long, probably 40 or 50 minutes. It had a completely distinct sound, and although it lacked variety, it really didn't lack beauty at all. I just sat there like I was in a trance.

I'm interested to know a few things:
1) who here has listened to more than 5 of his symphonies.
2)will they ever all be recorded?  :D
3) will they all ever be performed? (have they)?

Online drogulus

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Re: Segerstam- Symphony No.151 (out of 215 so far)
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2009, 07:50:45 AM »
But what I'm saying is that if he "only" wrote 50 and spent 5 times the effort on each he would no doubt have a much more satisfying body of works, no? Original only in terms of finding the most personal form of self expression rather than just whatever crap comes into his head. His pieces sound exactly as you'd imagine they would. There's something really grotesque to me about writing this many symphonies.

     I don't understand why you think originality is a matter of effort and concentration, or that it equals self expression. I would think self expression is not tied to originality if it means making the best music you can make. Maybe your best isn't original in any obvious way, or in any way at all other than being your own.

     Maybe writing fewer symphonies is not what a composer wants, and devoting more time and effort doesn't improve them. It could be that it's more satisfying to get on with the next one.
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snyprrr

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Re: Segerstam- Symphony No.151 (out of 215 so far)
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2011, 09:31:43 AM »
bump

kentel

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Re: Segerstam- Symphony No.151 (out of 215 so far)
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2012, 05:01:56 AM »
     I don't see it that way. Composers are as original as they can be, for the most part. And I'm not sure that a composer's output is more original if it's more "concentrated". And there are a few composers who don't try to be original as others might see it, because what they are hearing in their head isn't evaluated that way. They want to do that, however unoriginal someone else might think it is.

I agree; quantity is not necessarily connected with quality, in neither way (Vivaldi, Bach, Mozart, Boccherini...) although it may be the case (Cooman...), but it's certainly not for Segerstam. I see his symphonic corpus much more as a unique endless piece, a little bit like Feldman's gigantic 2nd quartet or other chamber pieces (For Philip Guston eg.). These works have neither beginning nor end, it's a kind of orchestral continuum. He can certainly write hundreds of symphonies that way, it's fine to me : the drawback is not the lack of quality, it's probably more the lack of variety. But I don't complain, I could listen to such music during hours.

By the way, I found 3 unissued (?) symphonies on Youtube :

Symphony nr.151 :

movement I: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJNn1qGGoYU
movement II: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xyyf8j34Ow&feature=related
movement III: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNy0sFdAXJk&feature=related

Symphony nr.172:

movement I:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFWSeKAno2c&feature=related
movement II:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyWsPSLXyNM&feature=related

Symphony nr.212: this one has a very good video

movement I:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAydCG0KTdQ&feature=related
movement II:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9909P9h-2s&feature=related