Author Topic: Wagner's Valhalla  (Read 276620 times)

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Offline knight66

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #2160 on: December 06, 2016, 09:23:25 AM »
The last time I saw Dutchman, Senta did not commit suicide. So, that demolished one of the main pillars that Wagner obsessed over, redemption through sacrifice, there was no sacrifice.

In the one prior to that, the sailors had themselves a jolly bukkake session!

Mike
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I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Offline ritter

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #2161 on: December 11, 2016, 12:59:43 PM »
Just finished reading this book, to which SurprisedByBeauty alerted us:



It is a very entertaining book, shedding light on Wieland Wagner's approach to the works of his grandfather and of others (Carmen, Aïda, Wozzeck..). Some wonderful insights are gained on some of the works, although sometimes Antoine Goléa tries to impose his own (often far-fetched) interprations of some pieces. Before anyone asks, no, none of the shadier aspects of Wieland's biography are even hinted at (as nobody would expect, given the nature of the book and the time the interviews took place--June 1966, just 3 months before Wieland's sadly premature death).

And yes, my copy has a stamp saying "Bibliothek Winifred Wagner"  8)

P.S.: Lohengrin at the Deutsche Oper last Sunday was just "OK", not really memorable. Peter Seiffert was uneven at the beginning, but displayed all his (long) experience in the rôle (he's 62) in a rather extraordinary Graalserzählung at the end. He seemed not to know the production too well, and had trouble moving around the stage. Annette Dasch was a touching Elsa, with some minor intonation issues in the high register at times (and an unexpected moment of hilarity happened when she fell off the bed in the Act 3 duet with Lohengrin). Wolfgang Koch an imposing if rather rough (as usual with this singer) Telramund, and Elisabete Matos was effective as Ortrud (although she was the only one who received some scattered boos in the final curtain calls). Günther Groissböck filled in at the last minute as Henry the Fowler, and was superb (as was Derek Welton--a member of the house ensemble--as the Herald).

Axel Kober didn't manage IMHO to capture the ethereal, iridiscent sound the prelude requires, but then went on to conduct a very sensitive performance, with excellent balance between pit and stage, and good dramatic thrust (while not ingoring the details of Wagner's scoring). The effect created by placing the trumpets of the introduction to scene 3 of the last act all around the theatre was very nice.

Kasper Holten's production really didn't have any very distinctive features, appeared strangely incoherent (while remaing for the most faithful to the libretto, except for a predictable twist at the end--Gottfired is returned to Brabant as a corpse), and the sets appeared simply cheap.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 02:48:12 PM by ritter »
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Offline relm1

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #2162 on: March 25, 2017, 04:06:18 PM »
Some have said "you cannot underestimate the influence of Wagner on classical music."  What is his influence?  Obviously I know Bruckner and Mahler were very impacted.  But at a more nuanced level what resulted from the influence of Wagner?

Offline Mahlerian

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #2163 on: March 25, 2017, 04:24:46 PM »
Some have said "you cannot underestimate the influence of Wagner on classical music."  What is his influence?  Obviously I know Bruckner and Mahler were very impacted.  But at a more nuanced level what resulted from the influence of Wagner?

A freer application of dissonances, a reduced reliance on the anchor of key as a structuring element, and the use of motifs as unities in themselves which can operate independently of the accompanying harmony and even contradict its implications.  His orchestra was also larger and frequently employed unusual timbres and combinations thereof.

In the realm of opera more specifically, Wagner continued the trend away from number opera with its distinction between recitative and aria.  The accompanying music was pushed further towards a reflection of the drama onstage.

In all of these things he had predecessors, especially Berlioz and Liszt, but Wagner was the one who became the figurehead for "progressive" music in the mid-19th century.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 04:29:18 PM by Mahlerian »

Offline relm1

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #2164 on: March 25, 2017, 05:08:07 PM »
A freer application of dissonances, a reduced reliance on the anchor of key as a structuring element, and the use of motifs as unities in themselves which can operate independently of the accompanying harmony and even contradict its implications.  His orchestra was also larger and frequently employed unusual timbres and combinations thereof.

In the realm of opera more specifically, Wagner continued the trend away from number opera with its distinction between recitative and aria.  The accompanying music was pushed further towards a reflection of the drama onstage.

In all of these things he had predecessors, especially Berlioz and Liszt, but Wagner was the one who became the figurehead for "progressive" music in the mid-19th century.
Much thanks Mahlerian. 

Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #2165 on: March 26, 2017, 09:23:21 AM »
Much thanks Mahlerian.

The simplified version, more or less repeating what Mahlerian said in so many words, is: After the Tristan-chord, tonality was never the same again; it was stretched to the max... there was a little bit to be had by condensing & tightening or by making the canvas still larger, but it's argued that it led almost necessarily to Schoenberg trying to smash the cork out of the bottle of tonality.

And opera was never the same again; it was now, more often than not, composed-through (starting with Verdi, who was one of the first to take the cue (i.e. Falstaff)). And the total connection of drama and music; the even greater insistence on the word as equal part in opera and the music employed as a means to express it and yet have the music act as an independent vehicle of expression... the expression of psychology through music, for example... that was pretty much all Wagner and there couldn't have been a Pelleas & Melisande or anything by Strauss or Britten or Janacek had it not been for Wagner to complete revolutionize the way opera worked.


Offline Alberich

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #2166 on: April 23, 2017, 06:29:55 AM »
Does anyone have a clue about why Ludwig Suthaus in Furtwangler's Siegfried recording from 1953 repeatedly pronounces Mime's name as "Mimme"?
"I am a shadowy reflection of you."

Offline PerfectWagnerite

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #2167 on: May 17, 2017, 05:26:20 AM »
Does anyone have a clue about why Ludwig Suthaus in Furtwangler's Siegfried recording from 1953 repeatedly pronounces Mime's name as "Mimme"?
He probably thought he was singing La Boheme.

Offline PerfectWagnerite

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #2168 on: May 17, 2017, 05:31:02 AM »
Does anyone know whether according to this:



The price is for Tristan, Parsifal and Ring COMBINED? In which case it sounds absurdly cheap.

Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #2169 on: May 17, 2017, 05:35:08 AM »
Does anyone know whether according to this:



The price is for Tristan, Parsifal and Ring COMBINED? In which case it sounds absurdly cheap.

No, I'm afraid that's not what it means. This means that for each individual opera, those are the prices... whereas for the new production (Meistersinger), the prices are different.

Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #2170 on: May 17, 2017, 05:35:46 AM »
No, I'm afraid that's not what it means. This means that for each individual opera, those are the prices... whereas for the new production (Meistersinger), the prices are different.

But mind you that some of the cheapest seats in the house (in fact most of them!) are still anywhere between good and more-than-tolerable seats.

Offline PerfectWagnerite

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #2171 on: May 17, 2017, 06:17:48 AM »
No, I'm afraid that's not what it means. This means that for each individual opera, those are the prices... whereas for the new production (Meistersinger), the prices are different.
For Ring is that the price PER opera? i remember paying $250 for EACH opera at the MET...

Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #2172 on: May 17, 2017, 08:50:33 AM »
For Ring is that the price PER opera? i remember paying $250 for EACH opera at the MET...

Yes. True, It's not made super-explicit but it must be assumed.

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