Author Topic: Wagner's Valhalla  (Read 276815 times)

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Offline marvinbrown

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #40 on: May 22, 2007, 05:15:13 AM »
Yes, I've just bought it at Amazon and noticed the cover images were the same.

I've been putting off buying it for a year but the time is right!

I think the visual aspect will help with the understanding of the saga. Listening to vocal highlights recently was a bit daunting.

Are they tears of joy or sadness?

   Solitary Wanderer my only advice to you is to forget about the highlights cds you have of the Ring and to  "dive" right in to the complete staged production of the Ring (Just like I did  0:)).  That Ring Cycle is an ocean of melody (leitmotif) and drama, a magnificent work of art that should be experienced from start to finish .  To ease the experince think of the Ring as a movie with one REMARKABLE score.   Write back if you need a life jacket.....everybody is here to help.

  PS: Don't forget the popcorn  ;) !

   marvin 

Haffner

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2007, 06:23:53 AM »
  Looks like you found yourself another Triumvirate Andy  :)!!!  I remember when you were telling me about "Andy's Triumvirate" consisting of Beethoven, Mozart and Haydn.  What's the common link you ask? Answer: MOZART of course (a testament to that GREAT man's GENIUS ) 

  marvin




Absolutely, Marvin! Mozart slays me each time I take a rest from his music and then go back to it. Many aren't aware that much of his greatest music can be found in his String Trios and Duos. k266 sounds to me like sweetest resignation, and of course the Divertimento k563 is desert island material for me!

As you probably already know,many of the vocal parts Wagner wrote for his characters have their influences from Mozart's Magic Flute and Don Giovanni.

Wouldn't it have been fabulous to have heard Wagner's arrangement of Don Giovanni!!!
« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 06:26:44 AM by Haffner »

Offline Chaszz

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2007, 08:23:28 AM »



Absolutely, Marvin! Mozart slays me each time I take a rest from his music and then go back to it. Many aren't aware that much of his greatest music can be found in his String Trios and Duos. k266 sounds to me like sweetest resignation, and of course the Divertimento k563 is desert island material for me!

As you probably already know,many of the vocal parts Wagner wrote for his characters have their influences from Mozart's Magic Flute and Don Giovanni.

Wouldn't it have been fabulous to have heard Wagner's arrangement of Don Giovanni!!!

It would also be quite interesting to hear Wagner's arrangement of Beethoven's Ninth for larger orchestra. I can't find a recording of it. Does anyone know of one?
« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 08:29:07 AM by chaszz »
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Offline Chaszz

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #43 on: June 03, 2007, 05:17:14 AM »
What is your favorite Wagner aria, whether for one or more vocalists?
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Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2007, 03:32:48 AM »
What is your favorite Wagner aria, whether for one or more vocalists?

I've a nostalgic attachment to O du, mein holder Abendstern from Tannhäuser: my grandfather enjoyed singing it, accompanying himself at the piano. It may be the first bit of Wagner I ever heard.

My favorite, though, is Winterstürme wichen dem Wonnemond from Act I Scene 3 of Die Walküre.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

uffeviking

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2007, 07:19:15 AM »
If ACD were still with us he could clarify the question, often asked, if Winterstürme is a true aria. Some experts even state that Wagner never wrote any arias. Maybe it depends on the musicological definition of what constitutes an aria.  ???

Offline PerfectWagnerite

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2007, 07:32:06 AM »
Strictly speaking Wagner never wrote an aria, or an opera either. Aria and opera are Italian terms, and Wagner hated Italian opera.

uffeviking

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #47 on: June 04, 2007, 07:46:36 AM »
Point well made - and taken!  ;D

Would you then please tag a name on to those pieces of singing, accompanied by an orchestra?  :-\

karlhenning

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #48 on: June 04, 2007, 07:51:07 AM »
Strictly speaking Wagner never wrote an aria, or an opera either.

But did he not write operas before he devised the term "music drama"? (Which maybe he borrowed from Italian sources, dramma per musica and all that.)

Though of course, revisionism was a favorite pastime of Wagner's . . . .

Offline PSmith08

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2007, 07:52:01 AM »
Strictly speaking Wagner never wrote an aria, or an opera either. Aria and opera are Italian terms, and Wagner hated Italian opera.

Are we throwing Rienzi (to say nothing of the early works Die Feen and Das Liebesverbot) out? I think most musicologists, and Wagnerians, would have to agree that those are operas - strictly speaking. In fact, I thought that the transition from grand opera to music-drama happened over the Holländer-Tannhäuser-Lohengrin sequence (c. 1840-1850).

But did he not write operas before he devised the term "music drama"? (Which maybe he borrowed from Italian sources, dramma per musica and all that.)

Though of course, revisionism was a favorite pastime of Wagner's . . . .

Ah, leave it to Karl to beat me to the punch. Well, my answer has a nice pedantry to it.

Offline PerfectWagnerite

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #50 on: June 04, 2007, 07:52:44 AM »
Point well made - and taken!  ;D

Would you then please tag a name on to those pieces of singing, accompanied by an orchestra?  :-\

I haven't got a clue ;D These have grown to be known as Siegmund's Wooing Song or Wotan's Farewell.


But seriously they are different from traditional Italian arias. One thing I can think of is that in Italian arias time totally freezes (think Caro Nome from Rigoletto). In pieces like Wintersturme or Elisabeth's entrance in Tannhauser there is still action going on when the singing is going on. So the piece is part of the action, which is different from Italian arias.

karlhenning

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #51 on: June 04, 2007, 07:53:13 AM »
Ah, leave it to Karl to beat me to the punch. Well, my answer has a nice pedantry to it.

 ;D

karlhenning

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #52 on: June 04, 2007, 07:53:33 AM »
Would you then please tag a name on to those pieces of singing, accompanied by an orchestra?  :-\

Wubba-wubba?  ;D ;D ;D

Offline PerfectWagnerite

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #53 on: June 04, 2007, 07:54:35 AM »
Are we throwing Rienzi (to say nothing of the early works Die Feen and Das Liebesverbot) out? I think most musicologists, and Wagnerians, would have to agree that those are operas - strictly speaking. In fact, I thought that the transition from grand opera to music-drama happened over the Holländer-Tannhäuser-Lohengrin sequence (c. 1840-1850).

Ah, leave it to Karl to beat me to the punch. Well, my answer has a nice pedantry to it.

Well, I do not consider Rienzi and the other two "operas" works of the Wagner I enjoy. However one chooses to characterize them I don't really care one way or another 0:)

karlhenning

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #54 on: June 04, 2007, 07:55:30 AM »
Well, I do not consider Rienzi and the other two "operas" works of the Wagner I enjoy. However one chooses to characterize them I don't really care one way or another 0:)

Beside the point. You agree that he wrote them?  ;D

Offline PSmith08

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #55 on: June 04, 2007, 07:57:37 AM »
Well, I do not consider Rienzi and the other two "operas" works of the Wagner I enjoy. However one chooses to characterize them I don't really care one way or another 0:)

Well, they're not Bayreuth canon, but they're still Wagner.

Offline PerfectWagnerite

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #56 on: June 04, 2007, 07:58:44 AM »
Beside the point. You agree that he wrote them?  ;D

Maybe Matilda wrote them?

Anyway I rarely listen to anything before the Ring.
Duchman and Lohengrin are pretty good but nothing special. Tannhauser is just a trainwreck altogether. I have no clue what THAT opera is about.

Offline PSmith08

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #57 on: June 04, 2007, 08:01:37 AM »
Maybe Matilda wrote them?

Anyway I rarely listen to anything before the Ring.
Holländer and Lohengrin are pretty good but nothing special. Tannhäuser is just a trainwreck altogether. I have no clue what THAT opera is about.

I think it's about the pope's staff flowering.

karlhenning

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #58 on: June 04, 2007, 08:03:36 AM »
Maybe Matilda wrote them?

You're working on a sequel to The Da Vinci Code, aren't you?  8)

uffeviking

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Re: Wagner's Valhalla
« Reply #59 on: June 04, 2007, 08:10:12 AM »
Maybe Matilda wrote them?

I thought Mathilde only wrote very boring Lieder? - Leaving, going for a hair cut and when I return maybe we got this settled, but it sure is entertaining!  :D


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