Author Topic: All About Streaming Music Services  (Read 14416 times)

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: All About Streaming Music Services
« Reply #120 on: June 16, 2017, 07:29:09 PM »
Based on the comments in this thread I downloaded the premium version of Tidal for a sample while I waited at the airport for my flight. I've always been of the opinion that you can't really hear the difference between 320kbps MP3 and FLAC. Well, I stand corrected. A quick A/B comparison between three different recordings brought this to light. I used the Golub/Kaplan/Carr Schubert piano trios, Anima Eterna's Carmina Burana and Deadmau5's "Album Title Goes Here".

All have excellent modern sound and I could definitely hear quite a difference but quantifying it is a little bit harder. The downside is that Tidal's premium service is three times the price of Spotify's. Something to ponder when the months free trial runs out.

Spotify doesn't play 320kbps MP3.
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Offline Daverz

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Re: All About Streaming Music Services
« Reply #121 on: June 16, 2017, 08:06:06 PM »
The latest problem on Tidal is albums with mixed up track order.  You get a weird interleaving of tracks from different works.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: All About Streaming Music Services
« Reply #122 on: June 16, 2017, 08:09:51 PM »
The latest problem on Tidal is albums with mixed up track order.  You get a weird interleaving of tracks from different works.

 I've had that happen just once, with Chiaroscuro Quartet's Haydn. and it is indeed annoying, but the way I listen (with a tablet interface) it was easily correctable.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2017, 08:18:40 PM by Mandryka »
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Offline Daverz

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Re: All About Streaming Music Services
« Reply #123 on: June 16, 2017, 08:25:54 PM »
Spotify doesn't play 320kbps MP3.

They use Ogg Vorbis according to their site.  Is the codec noticeably worse than MP3 at the same rate?

https://support.spotify.com/us/using_spotify/search_play/what-bitrate-does-spotify-use-for-streaming/

Offline Daverz

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Re: All About Streaming Music Services
« Reply #124 on: June 16, 2017, 08:28:22 PM »
I've had that happen just once, with Chiaroscuro Quartet's Haydn. and it is indeed annoying, but the way I listen (with a tablet interface) it was easily correctable.

I've seen it on dozens of albums in the last few months.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: All About Streaming Music Services
« Reply #125 on: June 17, 2017, 04:10:42 AM »
They use Ogg Vorbis according to their site.  Is the codec noticeably worse than MP3 at the same rate?

https://support.spotify.com/us/using_spotify/search_play/what-bitrate-does-spotify-use-for-streaming/

The problem's more likely to do with spotify's equalisation, dynamic range, and maybe their source files.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 04:13:11 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: All About Streaming Music Services
« Reply #126 on: June 17, 2017, 09:30:01 PM »
I've seen it on dozens of albums in the last few months.

I'm sure you have, I just came across it for a second time!
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Offline Holden

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Re: All About Streaming Music Services
« Reply #127 on: June 18, 2017, 12:50:26 PM »
Spotify doesn't play 320kbps MP3.

That's interesting, I assumed it was MP3. At what rate does Ogg Vorbis operate on their premium site?
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: All About Streaming Music Services
« Reply #128 on: June 18, 2017, 09:10:04 PM »
That's interesting, I assumed it was MP3. At what rate does Ogg Vorbis operate on their premium site?

320kbps VBR I think.
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Offline San Antone

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Re: All About Streaming Music Services
« Reply #129 on: February 08, 2018, 05:40:08 PM »
In November 2017 ECM announced that its entire catalog would be available to most streaming services.  This represented a 180 degree turnaround from their previous stance of not allowing any of their recordings to be available via streaming services. 

Welcome news, imo.

They added, that while they are still primarily dedicated to the CD and LP formats, their highest priority is for the music to be heard.

Wonderful news, and something I have hoped would happen for as long as streaming has existed.

 :)

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Offline aukhawk

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Re: All About Streaming Music Services
« Reply #131 on: February 13, 2018, 01:59:05 AM »
That's about how efficient each format is (OGG is slightly more efficient than MP3 - ie, compresses more) but not really about how they sound (probable answer - the same). 
I think when someone hears a difference between Tidal FLAC and Spotify OGG, what they may be hearing is a difference between Tidal and Spotify - but not necessarily a difference between FLAC and OGG.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: All About Streaming Music Services
« Reply #132 on: February 13, 2018, 02:08:20 AM »
That's about how efficient each format is (OGG is slightly more efficient than MP3 - ie, compresses more) but not really about how they sound (probable answer - the same). 
I think when someone hears a difference between Tidal FLAC and Spotify OGG, what they may be hearing is a difference between Tidal and Spotify - but not necessarily a difference between FLAC and OGG.

So what is it that spotify has done to the music file which makes them sound so much less good?
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Offline Madiel

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Re: All About Streaming Music Services
« Reply #133 on: February 16, 2018, 01:05:40 AM »
That's about how efficient each format is (OGG is slightly more efficient than MP3 - ie, compresses more) but not really about how they sound (probable answer - the same). 
I think when someone hears a difference between Tidal FLAC and Spotify OGG, what they may be hearing is a difference between Tidal and Spotify - but not necessarily a difference between FLAC and OGG.

OGG is a container format. FLAC is a lossless audio format. OGG on its own is meaningless without knowing what format the audio stream within it actually is.

If the audio stream is Ogg Vorbis then it's lossy. Which immediately presents a reason why it might not sound as good as a lossless format.
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Offline Pat B

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Re: All About Streaming Music Services
« Reply #134 on: February 16, 2018, 11:39:29 AM »
OGG is a container format. FLAC is a lossless audio format. OGG on its own is meaningless without knowing what format the audio stream within it actually is.

If the audio stream is Ogg Vorbis then it's lossy. Which immediately presents a reason why it might not sound as good as a lossless format.

Spotify uses Ogg Vorbis for their desktop app and MP3 for mobile devices and (IIRC) their web-based player.

Ogg-FLAC never really took off — I never could see the advantage of that over plain FLAC — and the other codecs that can go into an ogg container are all lossy.

Of course all of this is in flux. I wouldn’t be surprised if they eventually transition to Opus for everything.