Author Topic: Pizzetti's Paradigm  (Read 4561 times)

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Offline vandermolen

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Re: Pizzetti's Paradigm
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2017, 02:17:32 PM »
Pizzetti's Symphony from 1940 is an extraordinary work. It is long, memorable and deeply felt. Anyone who likes the orchestral works of Respighi or Cassella will, I suspect, love this one:

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline Spineur

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Re: Pizzetti's Paradigm
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2017, 02:54:41 PM »
Assassinio nella cattedrale

After TS Eliot poem.  Here Ruggero Raimondi as Thomas Beckett



As a whole, I did not find this opera as successful as, say, Poulenc Dialogue des carmelites.  A certain repetitive feeling sets in as you listen to this opera.  It uses 3 choruses (male, female and children) very effectively.  This choral part is the backbone of the work.  The setting in Bari's cathedral is beautiful and Raimondi is a towerring Beckett.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 03:03:40 PM by Spineur »
A woman voice glides like the wind
Of black, of damp, of night
And all it touches in this flight
Suddenly is over.

Anna Akhomatova

Offline cilgwyn

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Re: Pizzetti's Paradigm
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2017, 04:14:20 PM »
I love his Canti della stagione alta,but to date,I have yet to find one person who shares my enthusiasm. Yes,there are some moments of bombast,but that glorious theme in the first movement,and the wonderful way he brings it back at the end of the final movement. There is another beautiful melody in the second movement. It's all so romantic. It reminds me of some of those wonderful Fellini/Rota films. I remember some non entity in Gramophone giving a rival recording a rotten review. That from a glossy past it sell by date rag! ::) >:( (Spits into waste basket!!) Wonderful music! :) :) :) :) :) :) :)



Offline vandermolen

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Re: Pizzetti's Paradigm
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2017, 10:26:21 PM »
I love his Canti della stagione alta,but to date,I have yet to find one person who shares my enthusiasm. Yes,there are some moments of bombast,but that glorious theme in the first movement,and the wonderful way he brings it back at the end of the final movement. There is another beautiful melody in the second movement. It's all so romantic. It reminds me of some of those wonderful Fellini/Rota films. I remember some non entity in Gramophone giving a rival recording a rotten review. That from a glossy past it sell by date rag! ::) >:( (Spits into waste basket!!) Wonderful music! :) :) :) :) :) :) :)


Looks very interesting but pricey on Amazon UK but then I saw that the CD has gone on to Naxos so, once more unto the Amazon shopping basket. I prefer the Marco Polo cover design though. Thanks for the recommendation cigwyn.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Pizzetti's Paradigm
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2017, 10:27:05 PM »
Coming in April:


Even more temptation but thank you John.
 :)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline cilgwyn

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Re: Pizzetti's Paradigm
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2017, 02:05:04 AM »
Yes,the Marco Polo cover design is more fun. It's also strange how cd artwork can affect your enjoyment! The first recording I ever had of the Moeran Symphony was the Chandos Handley. When I finally bought the cd,I got the Enchantment reissue,and the artwork is pretty dire,imho. In the end I just had to buy the one with the original photo,which is really lovely. Although,since then I have expanded my Moeran Symphony with the Boult recording and Dilkes which are even finer. I got the Dilkes after reading your posts about it. The hmv has excellent couplings,too.
As to Canti della Stagione alta. I like it. The music is very romantic,almost filmic. A few moments of bombast in the second movement,where the composer seems to have been struggling with how to develop his material (such a lovely opening melody) DO lose it a few brownie points,but I like the rest;and I DO like the way he brings back his 'big' opening tune with a final flourish,right at the end. Respighi's Concerto in Modo Misolidio is a good comparison,and I gather you don't like that too much! I do. My preferred recording is the one on the Ondine label. I like the coupling.

I'm told the Pizzetti Symphony is thornier than the romantic Pizzetti we're used to;but is seems to have quite a few admirers. Dundonnell,is amongst them. By the way,I wish he would return to the GMG. I've never had any problems here,really.......so far,fingers crossed,as they say!! ::) ;D

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Pizzetti's Paradigm
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2017, 02:41:38 AM »
Yes,the Marco Polo cover design is more fun. It's also strange how cd artwork can affect your enjoyment! The first recording I ever had of the Moeran Symphony was the Chandos Handley. When I finally bought the cd,I got the Enchantment reissue,and the artwork is pretty dire,imho. In the end I just had to buy the one with the original photo,which is really lovely. Although,since then I have expanded my Moeran Symphony with the Boult recording and Dilkes which are even finer. I got the Dilkes after reading your posts about it. The hmv has excellent couplings,too.
As to Canti della Stagione alta. I like it. The music is very romantic,almost filmic. A few moments of bombast in the second movement,where the composer seems to have been struggling with how to develop his material (such a lovely opening melody) DO lose it a few brownie points,but I like the rest;and I DO like the way he brings back his 'big' opening tune with a final flourish,right at the end. Respighi's Concerto in Modo Misolidio is a good comparison,and I gather you don't like that too much! I do. My preferred recording is the one on the Ondine label. I like the coupling

I'm told the Pizzetti Symphony is thornier than the romantic Pizzetti we're used to;but is seems to have quite a few admirers. Dundonnell,is amongst them. By the way,I wish he would return to the GMG. I've never had any problems here,really.......so far,fingers crossed,as they say!! ::) ;D
No, I like the Respighi Concerto in Modo Misolidio, especially it's lovely dreamy tune. I think that we disagreed musically about the Sinfonia Drammatica. Funnily enough the Dilkes LP of the Moeran Symphony had a great effect on me when it first appeared. I was, I'm my student days, working as a shop assistant at Harrods in London. I wanted to be in books or records and they put me in the silk department  >:D. In my lunch hour I mooched around their record dept where I first saw the Moeran which I'd not even heard of. Of course I snapped it up with my staff discount and never looked back as far as that symphony is concerned. It remains my favourite recording as it has a special quality to it, even more IMHO than the magisterial Boult recording on Lyrita. When I bought the CD I had, of course, to buy the one with the fine LP cover image (Ring of Kerry, Ireland) on, which I still enjoy. Yes, it would be great if Colin (Dundonnell) returned but I doubt it. I've had the pleasure of meeting him in real life in London which was very nice. Pizzetti is a totally new discovery for me so thanks for your recommendation of the Marco/Polo Naxos CD which I hope to smuggle into the house soon. Thanks to jowcol too for starting this thread.  :)
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 05:14:04 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline cilgwyn

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Re: Pizzetti's Paradigm
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2017, 04:22:46 AM »
If you like choral music I would also recommend the Hyperion or Chandos cds. The Hyperion got the rave reviews,but the Chandos cd sounds fine to me,and you get more Pizzetti! The Hyperion cd of orchestral music is obviously a must if you like this composer. Try and forget the baliff and buy both!! :( ;D  If you want to hear his Concerto de l’estate,don't get the Naxos recording. I had it and I didn't think much of the work. Later,I bought a copy of the Decca Eloquence reissue of the 1966 recording,coupled with some other works,and I did enjoy it. It sounds like Respighi in Roman trilogy mode;but without the noisy bits,I think? I haven't played it for a while & I think I will later? The Naxos recording seems rather bland by comparison.
Here it is,with some nice fill-ups!



I think Pizzetti is a very fine composer. If you like Respighi I think Pizzetti has a similar sound world,in many ways. I think Respighi has the edge though in terms of the ultimate memorability of his ideas and tunes;but then you get a work like the Rondo Veneziano,for example,which I think is as good as anything Respighi composed. I could hear the big tune in my head for several days after listening to it. Also,I think comparisons are always rather unfair! Judging from what I heard of Fedra,his operas areprobably worthy of a revival. The Accord set of Fedra has no english translation of the libretto,though!! ::) >:(


Offline vandermolen

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Re: Pizzetti's Paradigm
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2017, 05:52:13 AM »
I think that you are trying to bankrupt me cilgwyn. Actually I do own 'Rondo Veneziano' which I picked up very cheap on an Amazon second-hand Hyperion CD about a week ago and am listening to it now. The Decca CD looks interesting with its couplings of Respighi and Rota.

That great tune towards the end of Rondo Veneziano reminds me very much of Atterberg - so you'll have to buy the Atterberg symphony series after all.  >:D
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 06:06:12 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Pizzetti's Paradigm
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2017, 04:13:03 AM »
I love his Canti della stagione alta,but to date,I have yet to find one person who shares my enthusiasm. Yes,there are some moments of bombast,but that glorious theme in the first movement,and the wonderful way he brings it back at the end of the final movement. There is another beautiful melody in the second movement. It's all so romantic. It reminds me of some of those wonderful Fellini/Rota films. I remember some non entity in Gramophone giving a rival recording a rotten review. That from a glossy past it sell by date rag! ::) >:( (Spits into waste basket!!) Wonderful music! :) :) :) :) :) :) :)


I've thoroughly enjoyed 'Canti della stagione alta' (Naxos release) and very much agree with your comments above. The dreamy slow movement and finale are especially memorable - so many thanks for the recommendation - and I forgive you for bankrupting me.  8)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline cilgwyn

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Re: Pizzetti's Paradigm
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2017, 07:26:10 AM »
Wow! You actually did enjoy it! :o As far as I can make out I'm the only fan of this score on this forum,and the AMF one. I played the cd all the way through after droning on about it here,and while I don't think it's a masterpiece,I really enoy it. The tunes are lovely and I love the "distant brass figures" the reviewer on Musicweb (who obviously likes it as much as me) refers to. It makes me think of romantic,Italian landscapes and buildings,and the remote past. There is something cinematic about the whole work. Oh,and this is one of those instances where Marco Polo seem to have come up trumps with the performance and recording quality.

This is the review,if you haven't already seen it:

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=226972

Just for the sake of balance;there is a really bad review of of this work,in a rival recording,on Gramophone's website,which comes up if you search for reviews of this work on the web. You can read it by pressing "Printscreen",and then saving it,before the subscription thingummy blocks it out (for a quick peruse). I suppose I shouldn't really tell people that! ::) Each to his own,eh?!! >:( ;D

Offline cilgwyn

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Re: Pizzetti's Paradigm
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2017, 11:19:20 AM »
Looking at the artwork for the Naxos reissue. I see what you mean,vandermolen. Not exactly inspiring. Don't they know that us cd obsessives are tempted by attractive artwork? The music deserves better! This joins that Naxos Havergal Brian cd of Syms 17 & 32 as one of their worst ever!

« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 04:46:57 AM by cilgwyn »

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Pizzetti's Paradigm
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2017, 12:47:19 PM »
Looking at the artwork for the Naxos reissue. I see what you mean,vandermolen. Not exactly inspiring. Don't they know that us cd obsessives are tempted by attractive artwork? The music deserves better! This joins that Naxos Havergal Brian cd of Syms 17 & 32 as one of their worst ever!


Yes, cilgwyn, its rubbish (the cover) especially compared to the Marco Polo you posted above. I prefer the Naxos HB Symphony 17 cover actually - at least the sinister circular form looks a bit like the psychopathic 'HAL 9000' computer from '2001: A Space Odyssey'.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline cilgwyn

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Re: Pizzetti's Paradigm
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2017, 01:11:47 AM »
Yes,I did pick on that one! It was just the first one that sprang to mind because we were making fun of it on the Brian thread. I think it looks like an egg yolk. The line could be a representation of a sausage! John brought up the HAL comparison. I must admit I've never got to the end of that movie! One day?!! If you're not careful the 'eye' can follow you around,if you're not careful!! On a more serious note,I think well chosen artwork does help sell copies of a cd. This one is......... ::) ::) ::) ;D

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Pizzetti's Paradigm
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2017, 01:32:38 AM »
Yes,I did pick on that one! It was just the first one that sprang to mind because we were making fun of it on the Brian thread. I think it looks like an egg yolk. The line could be a representation of a sausage! John brought up the HAL comparison. I must admit I've never got to the end of that movie! One day?!! If you're not careful the 'eye' can follow you around,if you're not careful!! On a more serious note,I think well chosen artwork does help sell copies of a cd. This one is......... ::) ::) ::) ;D
Yes, some of those Marco Polo to Naxos covers are pretty bad but I guess we have to be grateful that the music is available. I think they made more effort with the Marco Polo to Naxos Film series CDs.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

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