Author Topic: How are these two different?  (Read 4692 times)

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Offline 12tone.

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How are these two different?
« on: May 31, 2007, 03:34:54 PM »
So I have the left one...but wondered if the right one is different enough to get it.  Did Jochum's style differ much or did he have the same ideas to bring to two different orchestras?  That meaning if he played with one orchestra, expect the same thing with another.  Or is that wrong thinking?

Do these have enough differences, or did Jochum sound the same on both?


head-case

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Re: How are these two different?
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2007, 06:18:24 PM »
So I have the left one...but wondered if the right one is different enough to get it.  Did Jochum's style differ much or did he have the same ideas to bring to two different orchestras?  That meaning if he played with one orchestra, expect the same thing with another.  Or is that wrong thinking?

Do these have enough differences, or did Jochum sound the same on both?



The first is generally considered to have more interpretative liberties, the second more strict and staid in its conception.  Both are well played and worth hearing.

Offline beclemund

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Re: How are these two different?
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2007, 07:09:59 PM »
Do these have enough differences, or did Jochum sound the same on both?

They are very similar, IMO. There are subtle differences from one to the next but the same revisions in both. Go for the best price you can find.

Be sure to compliment your cycle with Giulini's 8th with the VPO. I spent my lunch hour today completely enthralled by the Adagio... I had to listen twice. It is such an expansive interpretation and the Vienna strings just sing... perfect.
"A guilty conscience needs to confess. A work of art is a confession." -- Albert Camus

Offline Novi

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Re: How are these two different?
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2007, 02:28:11 AM »
Be sure to compliment your cycle with Giulini's 8th with the VPO. I spent my lunch hour today completely enthralled by the Adagio... I had to listen twice. It is such an expansive interpretation and the Vienna strings just sing... perfect.

The Guilini 9th is great too.
Durch alle Töne tönet
Im bunten Erdentraum
Ein leiser Ton gezogen
Für den der heimlich lauschet.

Offline orbital

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Re: How are these two different?
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2007, 05:12:39 AM »
Plus, I think the EMI release with the Dresden should be cheaper. At least it was when I bought it.


Drasko

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Re: How are these two different?
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2007, 05:20:19 AM »
So I have the left one...but wondered if the right one is different enough to get it. 

If you have one you don't really need the other.

Hector

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Re: How are these two different?
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2007, 05:23:59 AM »
One is more earthbound than the other but I forget which.

I vaguely remember those that find interesting things in this conductor's Bruckner preferring the DG.

Offline Todd

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Re: How are these two different?
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2007, 08:16:11 AM »
The Guilini 9th is great too.


As is his 7th.
The universe is change; life is opinion.   Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Offline BachQ

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Re: How are these two different?
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2007, 08:26:14 AM »
Plus, I think the EMI release with the Dresden should be cheaper. At least it was when I bought it.



The Brilliant Classics release contains Symphony no. 0 as a bonus .......... EMI does not ...........

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: How are these two different?
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2007, 08:29:46 AM »
So I have the left one...but wondered if the right one is different enough to get it.

Not before you invest in someone else's Bruckner first. There are differences between the sets but really, it's a toss up. For example, I prefer the Bavarian Second (I really love that) but prefer the Dresden Ninth. My advice: get the Dresden box ten or twenty years from now and buy something completely different (interpretatively speaking) today. What you need to do today, right now, is: buy the Celibidache Munich Phil box  8)  (And yes, all the Giulini Bruckner you can find.)

Sarge
« Last Edit: June 01, 2007, 08:43:36 AM by Sergeant Rock »
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Choo Choo

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Re: How are these two different?
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2007, 08:35:12 AM »
(And yes, all the Giulini Bruckner you can find.)

Except the 1985 BPO #7  :P

Offline orbital

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Re: How are these two different?
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2007, 08:36:52 AM »
The Brilliant Classics release contains Symphony no. 0 as a bonus .......... EMI does not ...........
oh, I did not know that (that fact I mean AND the symphony)  ;D.

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: How are these two different?
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2007, 08:44:06 AM »
Except the 1985 BPO #7  :P

That one I don't own...I bow to your superior knowledge.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Choo Choo

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Re: How are these two different?
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2007, 09:28:38 AM »
It's ... disappointing.  The interpretation drags, the sonics are awful - even the playing is ragged in places.  Not up to the standard of the others.  E.g. the live Philharmonia #7 has never shifted from the top few steps of my personal pantheon.  A friend of mine who was there on the night (Proms '82) said at the end the roof lifted off.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2007, 09:31:21 AM by Choo Choo »

Choo Choo

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Re: How are these two different?
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2007, 03:09:25 PM »
Returning to the original question...

If you already have the Jochum set on DG, then (1) yes, the EMI Dresden set is different, but (2) not sufficiently different to make it worth buying if these are your only Bruckner recordings.

There is a wide range of Bruckner interpretation.  If you're interested, you could sample something with a different savour.  Sarge's suggestion of Celi's MPO set is a good one:  it contains at least 2 outstanding performances (plus 1 or 2 others which may be more controversial) but all are well worth hearing - and the set is de rigeur for a serious Brucknerian.

You can also try Karajan/BPO.  This is a consistent and competent set, representing (again) a different approach, which a lot of people find convincing.

My personal favourite set - if it's a set you're after - is Skrowaczewski/Saarbrücken.  Solid, meaty, echt-Brucknerian performances, with not a dud amongst them - and some knockouts:  #6 and #9 are particularly good - and the #0 is my top pick (from an admittedly not large field of candidates.)
« Last Edit: June 01, 2007, 03:36:09 PM by Choo Choo »

Offline MishaK

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Re: How are these two different?
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2007, 03:46:24 PM »
You can also try Karajan/BPO.  This is a consistent and competent set, representing (again) a different approach, which a lot of people find convincing.

For a consistent middle of the road set in good sound, I would rather get Wand, Haitink or Barenboim, the latter two of which are inexpensive these days. Karajan has very odd balances. A lot of detail gets lost in his wall of sound. Or for even better sound, get Chailly. But he does have at least one dud in his set (like that lifeless 9th).

Offline beclemund

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Re: How are these two different?
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2007, 11:04:35 PM »
For a consistent middle of the road set in good sound, I would rather get Wand, Haitink or Barenboim, the latter two of which are inexpensive these days. Karajan has very odd balances. A lot of detail gets lost in his wall of sound. Or for even better sound, get Chailly. But he does have at least one dud in his set (like that lifeless 9th).

It may be better to pick and choose some of Karajan's (he recorded the 8th at least four times) recordings of the later symphonies. His '88 8th is lovely... and makes a great addition if you're carrying more Nowak (Celibidache, Jochum, Giulini, Tintner--1887 ed. vs. 1890 on the Tintner so more like a third edition entirely--etc.) than Haas editions among your current readings. :)

One of these days, I'm going to add the Wand cycle to the Jochum and Tintner sets I already own, but there are so many other composers and individual works that I should devote more attention to, it's likely to be some time before I do that.

"A guilty conscience needs to confess. A work of art is a confession." -- Albert Camus

Offline Bonehelm

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Re: How are these two different?
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2007, 08:17:39 AM »
It may be better to pick and choose some of Karajan's (he recorded the 8th at least four times) recordings of the later symphonies. His '88 8th is lovely... and makes a great addition if you're carrying more Nowak (Celibidache, Jochum, Giulini, Tintner--1887 ed. vs. 1890 on the Tintner so more like a third edition entirely--etc.) than Haas editions among your current readings. :)

One of these days, I'm going to add the Wand cycle to the Jochum and Tintner sets I already own, but there are so many other composers and individual works that I should devote more attention to, it's likely to be some time before I do that.



I second your recommendation 100%. I have Wand's 4th...and well let's just say the Romantic symphony can't get much better than that.