Author Topic: Johann Baptiste Vanhal  (Read 11629 times)

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snyprrr

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Johann Baptiste Vanhal
« on: June 25, 2009, 11:08:59 AM »
It appears as though Vanhal, from whom I haven't heard a conscience note, is thee composer everyone lifts up to the M&H level. His SQs are woefully out-of-print or going for $99.

How can someone so close be so far away?

karlhenning

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Re: Johann Baptiste Vanhal
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2009, 04:42:21 AM »
It appears as though Vanhal, from whom I haven't heard a conscience note, is thee composer everyone lifts up to the M&H level.

Oh, I am sure I do not.

Nor does Gurn, and he's heard a great deal more of Vanhal than have I.

DavidW

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Re: Johann Baptiste Vanhal
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2009, 06:33:20 AM »
Vanhal is an excellent composer, he's worth seeking out.  Unless you have a bizarre string quartet fetish, you should simply listen to recordings of other chamber and orchestral works that are in print.  Simple as that. :)

Offline Josquin des Prez

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Re: Johann Baptiste Vanhal
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2009, 06:56:41 AM »
Just get the recording of his symphonies by the Concerto Koln. I tried his string quartets but they appear to be nothing special
« Last Edit: July 06, 2009, 07:01:33 AM by Josquin des Prez »

karlhenning

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Re: Johann Baptiste Vanhal
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2009, 06:57:51 AM »
. . . I tried his string quartets but they appear to be nothing special.

I guess he didn't really write Mozart's string quartets, after all . . . .

DavidW

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Re: Johann Baptiste Vanhal
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2009, 07:01:27 AM »
I guess he didn't really write Mozart's string quartets, after all . . . .

Newman will be pissed! ;D

Offline Josquin des Prez

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Re: Johann Baptiste Vanhal
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2009, 07:15:36 AM »
Well, he wrote over 70 string quartets, it's hard to gouge whether any of them is of good quality. His symphonies are actually very good so who knows.

karlhenning

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Re: Johann Baptiste Vanhal
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2009, 07:28:54 AM »
His symphonies are actually very good so who knows.

The one I've heard (which I am guessing must be representative) is simply not in the class of the composer whose work he supposedly ghost-wrote.

Offline 71 dB

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Re: Johann Baptiste Vanhal
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2009, 07:32:09 AM »
I haven't heard Vanhal's String Quartets but I have 4 discs of his music:

Symphonies Vol. 1 - Uwe Grodd/Naxos
Symphonies Vol. 2 - Uwe Grodd/Naxos
Missa Pastoralis in G major/Missa Solemnis in C major - Uwe Grodd/Naxos
Concerto in F major for 2 Bassoons & Orchestra/2 Sinfonias - Jukka-Pekka Saraste/BIS

He is very important composer imho.  0:)
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karlhenning

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Re: Johann Baptiste Vanhal
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2009, 07:39:14 AM »
He is very important composer imho.  0:)

Why?

Offline 71 dB

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Re: Johann Baptiste Vanhal
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2009, 08:11:02 AM »
Why?

He was one of the first composers earning his living official appointment or patronage. He was also very popular Viennese composer.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
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karlhenning

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Re: Johann Baptiste Vanhal
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2009, 08:30:28 AM »
He was one of the first composers earning his living official appointment or patronage. He was also very popular Viennese composer.

Thanks for your answer, Poju.

Offline Josquin des Prez

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Re: Johann Baptiste Vanhal
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2009, 08:50:26 AM »
The one I've heard (which I am guessing must be representative) is simply not in the class of the composer whose work he supposedly ghost-wrote.

No, not even close, but they are not too far behind Haydn's own Storm and Stress symphonies. I wasn't trying to suggest Newman was right, btw. I was just trying not to appear too negative since i don't really know much about him, only that he seems to be a bit above the norm in so far as composers of his rank go.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2009, 08:52:05 AM by Josquin des Prez »

karlhenning

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Re: Johann Baptiste Vanhal
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2009, 08:52:52 AM »
No, not even close, but they are not too far behind Haydn's own Storm and Stress symphonies.

I haven't made my way so late in the Haydn symphonies, but even in the very early symphonies, his scoring is more inventive, and more specific, than in the Vanhal example I've heard.

Quote from: JdP
I wasn't trying to suggest Newman was right, btw.

Ho capito.

snyprrr

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Re: Johann Baptiste Vanhal
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2009, 09:09:56 AM »
I was just noticing last night that this thread had no responses! Huh!

Unless you have a bizarre string quartet feti

Oh, you haven't heard?

I tried his string quartets but they appear to be nothing special

What was this? Would you like to sell? ;D

Beyond that, though, you all seem to make a good case for Vanhal's minor key work. How do you think he compares with Kraus?

btw- I wouldn't have pegged Vanhal for "Mozart." Half the reason I started checking out "classical" SQs was because of Newman's Challenge that we don't know the rep. But, so far, I can't see Boccherini, Haydn, Pleyel, Kraus, or Dittersdorf being the culprit. The SQs by "The Artist Known as Mozart" are sooo different than anything else at the time. Who else utilizes the dribbling chromatics? Who???

DavidW

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Re: Johann Baptiste Vanhal
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2009, 09:12:50 AM »
I don't know what "dribbling chromatics" are, but I agree with you that Mozart's SQs are not like the others.  They have a dissonant, acerbic character to them not found in other classical era string quartets.

karlhenning

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Re: Johann Baptiste Vanhal
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2009, 09:13:53 AM »
The SQs by "The Artist Known as Mozart" are sooo different than anything else at the time.

(I see David got here first; still . . .)

Quoted for truth.

DavidW

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Re: Johann Baptiste Vanhal
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2009, 09:19:44 AM »
(I see David got here first; still . . .)

Quoted for truth.

Egads you've snipped Mr Snipper! :D

karlhenning

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Re: Johann Baptiste Vanhal
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2009, 09:23:25 AM »
He was dribbling a bit.

Offline Josquin des Prez

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Re: Johann Baptiste Vanhal
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2009, 10:35:47 AM »
Well, here's an example of his symphonies as well as string quartets, respectively:

http://rapidshare.com/files/252738384/Symphony_in_C___Sinfonia_Comista__.rar.html

http://rapidshare.com/files/252725207/String_Quartet_in_A.rar.html

I had to grab the string quartet off some p2p program since i got rid of the recording i had a long time ago. Much better then the one i heard, and somewhat reminiscent of Mozart, in a very superficial way, enough to fool inexperienced listeners i guess.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2009, 10:39:50 AM by Josquin des Prez »