Author Topic: The Classical Download Thread  (Read 241757 times)

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Mark

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #80 on: June 09, 2007, 04:54:26 PM »
Aha! Here's Universal's Classics & Jazz site. And the following tells us that 320kbps is on offer:

Classicsandjazz.co.uk is the Home of Classical and Jazz downloads. Created by Universal Music in conjunction with Fresh Digital and design agency TwentySix London, the site aims to meet the needs of all Classical and Jazz fans online.

The site has been designed for Classical and Jazz fans, so with this in mind the main features are: Better quality of downloads, the bit rate of files that you download are 320kbps, that's over double that of iTunes and most other retailers; you will be able search by composer and catalogue number; you will be able to listen to a minute of each track before you buy; plus you can read reviews from established sources and write your own reviews. The site is not only a store but also a portal for Classical and Jazz. The site provides artist information from frontline artists, which you wouldn't normally get on other digital stores, including photos, biographies, news and tour dates. The site is also interactive not only in its ability to publish user reviews but also as it has its own forum, in which Classical and Jazz fans are invited to discuss the latest releases and news from the music world.

You will find that the store is split into 3 sections. Classical - for the core classical fan, Jazz - for the core Jazz fan and Light which is for artists which are deemed 'crossover' in the music industry, this generally means the more popular artists who front the Classical and Jazz arena. Each main section is split in several genres. These genre pages raise the awareness of the latest and top selling releases.

The site is produced by Universal Music and so it features all the releases from all 66 labels within this record company. This includes Deutsche Grammophon, Decca, Phillips, Verve, Emarcy, Impulse, Concord, Fantasy, Rounder, UCJ and Universal Jazz. This means over 100,000 tracks are available to purchase, that's over 8,000 CDs and 30million seconds of music!

Mark

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #81 on: June 09, 2007, 05:01:39 PM »
And from Chandos, The Classical Shop.

An interesting point of difference with this service is that it also offers WMA Lossless files. From their website:

WMA lossless is a format that allows the file to be compressed without losing any data, i.e. sound. It works by ‘zipping’ the file before compression, creating a smaller file but without loss, hence ‘lossless’. The sound quality is exactly the same as on a CD, with no deterioration. However, the file sizes of WMA lossless are much larger than MP3 files. One 600 mb CD of music will reduce at a compression rate of 2:1.

Download times vary between 35 minutes on a 1 Meg internet connection down to only 5 minutes for an 8 Meg connection. WMA lossless files can be imported into most PC audio programmes including iTunes and Windows Media Player. iTunes converts into Apple lossless on import, making it compatible with iPods (this is a Windows iTunes facility only, Mac users need to use 3rd party conversion software to import WMAs into iTunes).

Needless to say, WMA lossless is ideally suited to classical music which requires the best possible sound quality.

Steve

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #82 on: June 09, 2007, 05:52:32 PM »
Here's an interesting article regarding classical music downloads published earlier this month by the Christian Science Monitor.

Thanks for the service links, Mark.

Just a caveat, public domain laws are different in the USA than internationally, so sites like Classical Music Mobile which use public domain laws with regard to copyright rather than agreements with labels to re-distribute recordings may not be legitimate in the States. Be sure to check the information on any download site regarding thier agreements with labels and/or artists if you intend to use it and if you are interested in legal downloads.

American copyright laws are way too complicated. I still can't figure out whether or not purchasing from classical music mobile is legal in the United States. I emailed the webmaster and he seemed to believe that it would be alright, but I can't find a definitive answer. Who do you go to with questions like this? Am I really supposed to dig up and peruse the relevant copyright laws myself? Their website, on the top right corner says 'only legal music', and they accept registrations from people who indicate that they reside in the states. I don't see why this would be any different then going to Britain, downloading it there, and bringing it with me on a laptop.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2007, 05:54:44 PM by Steve »

Offline beclemund

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #83 on: June 09, 2007, 06:29:34 PM »
American copyright laws are way too complicated. I still can't figure out whether or not purchasing from classical music mobile is legal in the United States. I emailed the webmaster and he seemed to believe that it would be alright, but I can't find a definitive answer. Who do you go to with questions like this? Am I really supposed to dig up and peruse the relevant copyright laws myself? Their website, on the top right corner says 'only legal music', and they accept registrations from people who indicate that they reside in the states. I don't see why this would be any different then going to Britain, downloading it there, and bringing it with me on a laptop.

The main differences are the public domain rules. In the US copyright does not expire for almost twice as many years, and there are other restrictions rather than the 50 years indicated on Classical Music Mobile. Granted, you probably will not hear from the RIAA based on downloads from there, but it isn't as cut and dry as the site makes it seems. You can tell if you're treading in dangerous waters if you can find a particular performance in print and readily available. Just a cursory search of titles available from Classical Music Mobile shows most if not all still available on Amazon, so that would red flag those titles (and that whole service) for me. You can find some more information here.
"A guilty conscience needs to confess. A work of art is a confession." -- Albert Camus

Mozart

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #84 on: June 09, 2007, 07:31:09 PM »
9

Steve

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #85 on: June 09, 2007, 07:42:20 PM »
The main differences are the public domain rules. In the US copyright does not expire for almost twice as many years, and there are other restrictions rather than the 50 years indicated on Classical Music Mobile. Granted, you probably will not hear from the RIAA based on downloads from there, but it isn't as cut and dry as the site makes it seems. You can tell if you're treading in dangerous waters if you can find a particular performance in print and readily available. Just a cursory search of titles available from Classical Music Mobile shows most if not all still available on Amazon, so that would red flag those titles (and that whole service) for me. You can find some more information here.

So, it is my duty before I can use this sort of service to investigate completely the intracacies of US copyright law? Wouldn't it the responsibility of the merchant not to accept transactions from the US?

Offline orbital

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #86 on: June 09, 2007, 07:49:21 PM »
So, it is my duty before I can use this sort of service to investigate completely the intracacies of US copyright law? Wouldn't it the responsibility of the merchant not to accept transactions from the US?
In theory yes, but they can easily avoid complications by placing a disclaimer saying that it is the customer's responsibility to make sure that the action they are taking is in line with their state regulations.
Similar to sale alcoholic beverages over the internet. Some sites do ship to all states, but they warn that the customer should not place orders if online alcohol purchase is not legal in their home state. As a rule of the thumb, I think the only law that the website is bound by is the law in the state/country that they are incorporated in.

Steve

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #87 on: June 09, 2007, 07:55:39 PM »
In theory yes, but they can easily avoid complications by placing a disclaimer saying that it is the customer's responsibility to make sure that the action they are taking is in line with their state regulations.
Similar to sale alcoholic beverages over the internet. Some sites do ship to all states, but they warn that the customer should not place orders if online alcohol purchase is not legal in their home state. As a rule of the thumb, I think the only law that the website is bound by is the law in the state/country that they are incorporated in.

That's an unreasonable expectation of a consumer where the site reads, 'only legal music'.

Well it looks like I won't be purchasing music from this site.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2007, 08:14:30 PM by Steve »

Offline orbital

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #88 on: June 09, 2007, 08:06:48 PM »
That's an unreasonable expectation of a consumer where the site reads, 'only legal music'.
Of course, but they are talking about British legality. That's why it might be a good practice to at least make such distinctions visible on the website. Plus if the website does not include the .co.uk designation in their url, you may not even know that they are abroad.

The laws in Britain may say "downloads such as these may be offered to customers from other countries", whereas laws in the US may say "downloads such as these may not be purchased". In such a case the company making these offerings would not be liable for any unlawful activity.

Offline beclemund

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #89 on: June 09, 2007, 08:13:20 PM »
So, it is my duty before I can use this sort of service to investigate completely the intracacies of US copyright law? Wouldn't it the responsibility of the merchant not to accept transactions from the US?

Generally speaking, yes, your actions are often *your* responsibility. ;)
"A guilty conscience needs to confess. A work of art is a confession." -- Albert Camus

Steve

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #90 on: June 09, 2007, 08:30:12 PM »
Generally speaking, yes, your actions are often *your* responsibility. ;)

This is why I check with members of this forum first. Alas, I shall not be purchasing from this store.  :)

mahlertitan

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #91 on: June 09, 2007, 08:39:57 PM »
I think as long as you are downloading/sharing for personal uses, legality is not really that big of deal.

Steve

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #92 on: June 09, 2007, 09:41:37 PM »
I think as long as you are downloading/sharing for personal uses, legality is not really that big of deal.

I just think that if I'm going to pay for something, it's only going to be for a perfectly legal download.

mahlertitan

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #93 on: June 10, 2007, 01:18:07 AM »
I just think that if I'm going to pay for something, it's only going to be for a perfectly legal download.

if someone really wants to sue you, believe me, those so called "legal" downloads aren't 100% safe.

if you want perfectly legal music, just go buy the CD, and rip the cd onto your laptop, and share with me on demonoid ;D

Lilas Pastia

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #94 on: June 10, 2007, 04:07:40 AM »
Eclassical is entirely legal because they only buy stuff through a licensing agreement. Many of their offerings are releases from 2006-2007, some are even available before they reach the stores :o.

Offline beclemund

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #95 on: June 10, 2007, 07:48:52 AM »
if someone really wants to sue you, believe me, those so called "legal" downloads aren't 100% safe.

This is a patently false statement. I think you would have a hard time as a record label trying to seek damages from someone for copyright violation who was downloading music from iTunes, emusic, Amazon, Buy.com, etc.. that was bought and paid for. Contracts with labels are negociated by these services so that their users are getting 100% legal music. Each download site will specify the exact usage model for that music too. There are many legal distribution channels for digital music. The not so secret, secret, is to examine a company's connections with labels and artists, consult news articles about a company and their servirce, and give some attention to where the company operates--as they may be working from a different set of laws than your nation of residence.

On the other hand, it is possible to buy an illegally pirated compact disc... you need to use the same kind of discretion when purchasing a DVD or CD as you do when purchasing a download.
"A guilty conscience needs to confess. A work of art is a confession." -- Albert Camus

mahlertitan

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #96 on: June 10, 2007, 03:40:47 PM »
a question:
Is file sharing illegal? if so, to what extent is it illegal, and to what extend is it legal?

Steve

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #97 on: June 10, 2007, 03:43:46 PM »
This is a patently false statement. I think you would have a hard time as a record label trying to seek damages from someone for copyright violation who was downloading music from iTunes, emusic, Amazon, Buy.com, etc.. that was bought and paid for. Contracts with labels are negociated by these services so that their users are getting 100% legal music. Each download site will specify the exact usage model for that music too. There are many legal distribution channels for digital music. The not so secret, secret, is to examine a company's connections with labels and artists, consult news articles about a company and their servirce, and give some attention to where the company operates--as they may be working from a different set of laws than your nation of residence.

On the other hand, it is possible to buy an illegally pirated compact disc... you need to use the same kind of discretion when purchasing a DVD or CD as you do when purchasing a download.

This has been the problem with the global nature of the internet. If I went to a conventional store and purchased a CD for a lower than usual price, I wouldn't be expected to consult the authorities in order to verify the legality of their operation, yet it seems like, I would be responsible were it an online vendor. Of course, I will try to be careful. But, it seems to me, that when you purchase something from a site with a web address that ends in .com, claims to be selling only legal music, and responds to an email inquiry without stating that their service is not legal in America, I could reasonably expect to be operating within a legal context. But, who knows?

mahlertitan

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #98 on: June 10, 2007, 03:47:04 PM »
This is a patently false statement. I think you would have a hard time as a record label trying to seek damages from someone for copyright violation who was downloading music from iTunes, emusic, Amazon, Buy.com, etc.. that was bought and paid for. Contracts with labels are negociated by these services so that their users are getting 100% legal music. Each download site will specify the exact usage model for that music too. There are many legal distribution channels for digital music. The not so secret, secret, is to examine a company's connections with labels and artists, consult news articles about a company and their servirce, and give some attention to where the company operates--as they may be working from a different set of laws than your nation of residence.

On the other hand, it is possible to buy an illegally pirated compact disc... you need to use the same kind of discretion when purchasing a DVD or CD as you do when purchasing a download.

true, they'll get sued instead of you.

Offline beclemund

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #99 on: June 10, 2007, 04:17:05 PM »
a question:
Is file sharing illegal? if so, to what extent is it illegal, and to what extend is it legal?

For those files still covered under a copyright, no, it is *not* legal. People will decide for themselves what they are willing to get away with, of course. Your earlier statement regarding "downloading/sharing for personal uses" is exactly the thing the RIAA has been coming down on when distributing settlement letters to university campuses and ISPs throughout the US over the last few years.

true, they'll get sued instead of you.

This is also unlikely with those companies that have established contracts to distribute music digitally with the copyright holders. There certainly are pay-for services that operate illegally. Again, you need to be thorough about examining which services you are willing to use.

You can find more information about US copyright law directly from US Copyright Office.

From that site:

Quote
Is it legal to download works from peer-to-peer networks and if not, what is the penalty for doing so?
Uploading or downloading works protected by copyright without the authority of the copyright owner is an infringement of the copyright owner's exclusive rights of reproduction and/or distribution. Anyone found to have infringed a copyrighted work may be liable for statutory damages up to $30,000 for each work infringed and, if willful infringement is proven by the copyright owner, that amount may be increased up to $150,000 for each work infringed. In addition, an infringer of a work may also be liable for the attorney's fees incurred by the copyright owner to enforce his or her rights.

Whether or not a particular work is being made available under the authority of the copyright owner is a question of fact. But since any original work of authorship fixed in a tangible medium (including a computer file) is protected by federal copyright law upon creation, in the absence of clear information to the contrary, most works may be assumed to be protected by federal copyright law.

Since the files distributed over peer-to-peer networks are primarily copyrighted works, there is a risk of liability for downloading material from these networks. To avoid these risks, there are currently many "authorized" services on the Internet that allow consumers to purchase copyrighted works online, whether music, ebooks, or motion pictures. By purchasing works through authorized services, consumers can avoid the risks of infringement liability and can limit their exposure to other potential risks, e.g., viruses, unexpected material, or spyware.

For more information on this issue, see the Register of Copyrights' testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2007, 04:20:46 PM by beclemund »
"A guilty conscience needs to confess. A work of art is a confession." -- Albert Camus