Author Topic: Frescobaldi, Girolamo - Italian Keyboard Pioneer!  (Read 18347 times)

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Offline SonicMan46

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Frescobaldi, Girolamo - Italian Keyboard Pioneer!
« on: July 23, 2009, 03:30:44 PM »
Frescobaldi, Girolamo (1583-1643) - just checking Sara's Composer List; boy, there are so few Italians present - just a short list from the Baroque-Early Classical period of those 'missing in action' - Corelli, Galuppi, Locatelli, Scarlatti(s), Sammartini(s), Tartini, & Vivaldi; so, a bunch of 'new' composer threads to contemplate!  :D

But I just received my first discs of this early Baroque composer, an Italian keyboard (organ & harpsichord) player and composer from Ferrara, who travelled widely in Italy and serve many different positions including organist of St. Peter's Basicilica in Rome, starting in 1608 and lasting intermittely until his death.  If interested, checkout his Wiki Article HERE; some impressive quotes from Wiki and the liner notes of my new CDs include:  The most remarkable figure in Italian keyboard music before Domenico Scarlatti & Frescobaldi's work was known to, and influenced numerous major composers outside Italy, including Henry Purcell, Johann Pachelbel, and Johann Sebastian Bach - this Italian was an early and important innovator whose influence extended into the later Baroque period and likely beyond.

Based on recent reviews, I purchased and have just received the two 2-CD sets of Frescobaldi's music on the Brilliant label shown below - great bargain, as expected; these recordings are being directed/performed by Roberto Loreggian, who plans to record virtually ALL of this composer's music - I'm not sure 'how much' exists or 'how many' discs may eventually be produced?  Loreggian's website is located HERE - does not seem updated w/ the information on his Brilliant project?

The two sets of double-CDs purchased are labelled as Vol. 1 & 2 - Volume 1 are Toccatas & Partitas performed mainly on harpsichord w/ some organ included; these are fabulous solo works for the period - need to do some re-listening, but his impact on subsequent composers is easy to understand; the sound of the harpsichord is just beautiful (but not much information is given in the liner notes concerning the instrument).  Volume 2 are Canzone - these are based on dance/song music of the times, but basically is early Baroque 'chamber music' w/ different combinations of instruments (left a post in the listening thread on this 2-CD set).

I've become intrigued w/ this composer - obviously an important early keyboard innovator who introduced a variety of playing techiniques and compositional forms that impressed his students and subsequent composers - will continue to explore his output.  However, comments and/or recommendations from others would be appreciated - thanks.  :)

 
« Last Edit: March 25, 2015, 09:49:13 AM by SonicMan46 »

Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

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Re: Frescobaldi, Girolamo - Italian Keyboard Pioneer!
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2009, 10:43:57 PM »
Thanks Sonic. I am increasingly interested in early keyboard composers so this post is useful to me.  :)
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

Offline The new erato

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Re: Frescobaldi, Girolamo - Italian Keyboard Pioneer!
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2009, 12:45:31 AM »
Rinaldo Alessandrini's discs on Opus 111 of vocal works are worth an effort to get hold of. They may be discontinued though, and are more expensive than Brilliant. But they are of the same quality as his Monteverdi for the same label.

Otherwise, I have the Canzonas set on Brilliant and remember liking it quite a bit. I will eventually get the whole series if it ever is finished (I remember a promising - though variable - start to a complete Schutz that seems to have fizzled out halfways)  
« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 01:45:53 AM by erato »

Harry

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Re: Frescobaldi, Girolamo - Italian Keyboard Pioneer!
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2009, 01:34:20 AM »
Rinaldo Alessandrini's discs on Opus 111 of vocal works are worth an effort to get hold of. They may be dicontinued though, and are more expensive than Brilliant. But they are of the same quality as his Monteverdi for the same label.

Otherwise, I have the Canzonas set on Brilliant and remember liking it quite a bit. I will eventually get the whole series if it ever is finished (I remeber a promising - though variable - start to a complete Schutz that seems to have fizzled out halfways) 

True, the Schutz is still underway, I will call them one of these days and ask what happened with this excellent series.

DavidW

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Re: Frescobaldi, Girolamo - Italian Keyboard Pioneer!
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2009, 05:00:22 AM »
I've added Frescobaldi's Canzonas to my wish list now.  Since early baroque is so poorly represented in my collection, it will probably be my next purchase. :)

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Frescobaldi, Girolamo - Italian Keyboard Pioneer!
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2009, 03:02:29 PM »
Seriously: you obviously are not very familair with his music, or just fail to appreciate it. Froberger was a very interesting and highly original (!) composer of harpsichord music who fused French, Italian and German musical styles.

I reserve any judgement on Frescobaldi until I've had a good taste of his music.


Hello Q - the quote below from the Wiki article I linked may be of interest to all in regards to Froberger:

Quote
Frescobaldi's pupils included numerous Italian composers, but the most important was a German, Johann Jakob Froberger, who studied with him in 1637–41.

DavidW

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Re: Frescobaldi, Girolamo - Italian Keyboard Pioneer!
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2009, 07:22:33 AM »
I find it interesting that Frescobaldi is like the George Lucas of baroque era composers-- never satisfied he kept tinkering with his works.  There is no final product with such artists, just abandoned pieces! :D

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Frescobaldi, Girolamo - Italian Keyboard Pioneer!
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2009, 09:00:14 AM »
Well , hopefully to get us back on track; over the last few days I've been trying to get a 'handle' on just 'what' Frescobaldi composed, and David is right, he did do a lot of revisions of previous works (but hey so did many other composers, even some of our favorites; I guess Bruckner would be a good example).

His compositions seem to comprise a 'short' list (esp. considering the revisions); this listing was generated mainly from a Wiki Link HERE; not sure 'how' accurate the descriptions and dates may be, so please provide additional information, dates, corrections, etc.   :)

Compositions attributed to Frescobaldi:

First Book of 12 Fantasies (1608)

First Book of Toccatas & Partitas - 12 Toccatas, 4 Partitas, 4 Correntes (1615)

First Book of 10 Ricercars & 5 Canzonas (1615)

First Book of 12 Capriccios (1624)

Second Book of 11 Toccatas, 6 Canzonas, 4 Hymns, 3 Magnificats, 5 Galliards, 6 Correntes, & 4 Partitas (1627; revised, 1637)

Three Organ Masses & 2 Capriccios (1635) (and apparently other revisions)

Canzonas alla francese, 11 (1645; posthumous)

Plenty of vocal music (see link, if interested) & other instrumental works


Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Frescobaldi, Girolamo - Italian Keyboard Pioneer!
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2009, 09:17:33 AM »
In addition, I was curious if Roberto Loreggian and his group had put out any more Frescobaldi discs on the Brilliant Classics label?  Apparently, the two single disc offerings have been released, i.e. Vol. 3 & 4; descriptions below from the Presto Classical website, which is having a 20% OFF sale on Brilliant offerings -  :)

Vol. 3:  On the third volume of the Brilliant Classics Frescobaldi Edition are two Masses that have survived in manuscript partbooks, inscribed ‘G.F.di’, which scholars believe is a reference to Frescobaldi. It is likely that these masses were performed in the basilica, and Frescobaldi uses popular songs as the basis for both works. One is a song of a girl pleading with her mother not to send her to a convent, the other a song composed for the wedding of the Grand Duke of Tuscany in 1589. Both works are beautifully crafted examples of late 17th-century Italian church music

Vol. 4:  The Fiori Musicali or ‘musical flowers’ occupy a special place among his works. Published in 1635, they consist of three ‘organ Masses’. Designed for churches where there was an organ, but no choir, the organ would play the movements of the Mass in the form of toccatas, canzonas, recercars and so on, sometimes with plainchant provided by the priest.


 

DavidW

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Re: Frescobaldi, Girolamo - Italian Keyboard Pioneer!
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2009, 05:58:24 PM »
Bach studied Frescobaldi's works when he was young, calling him one of the "strong masters of the fugue" and he also studied indepth the Fiori Musicali (which is vol. 4 in the brilliant classics series) during his Weimar period, so we get to hear music that deeply inspired perhaps the greatest composer, Bach!  Not only that but Frescobaldi is considered by many to be one of the greatest composers of the early Baroque era on par with Palestrina.

Still when I approached Frescobaldi's Canzone today I found myself needing multiple listens just to get used to the different sound world.  Just the ornamentation in the violin parts were so odd to me that it took me awhile to get used to it!  But I feel that it's worth the time investment, slowly but surely an earlier time is unfolding before me, and it's rare for me to get to listen to purely instrumental chamber/orchestral work so early in music. :)

Antoine Marchand

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Re: Frescobaldi, Girolamo - Italian Keyboard Pioneer!
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2010, 12:02:32 PM »
Girolamo Frescobaldi - Canzone
Il Primo Libro delle Canzone, a una, due, tre e quattro voci per sonare con ogni sorte di stromenti (1628)

ConSerto Musico [(Maria Folena - traversa; Josué Meléndez, Gawain Glenton - cornetto;
Federico Guglielmo, Elisa Imbalzano - violin; Andrea Bressan - dulcian; Francesco Galligioni - cello, viola da gamba;
Cristiano Contadin - viola da gamba, viola soprano, violotto; Ivano Zanenghi - lute, archlute; Fabio Framba - organ;
Roberto Loreggian - harpsichord, organ]

Roberto Loreggian [direction]

Frescobaldi Edition Vol. 2

Recorded: 25-28/2 & 24/11 2007, Villa Beatrice d'Este, Baone & Chiesa di S. Bernadino, Verona, Italy. Released: 2008

Brilliant Classics

Total timing - 65:24, 67:40

 :)

P.S.: Curiously, the 21th track of the second CD was defective when I played it in my CD player Advance Acoustic, but it worked correctly in my NAD CD player. Does anyone have this set to check that track?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2010, 12:29:44 PM by Antoine Marchand »

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Frescobaldi, Girolamo - Italian Keyboard Pioneer!
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2010, 04:42:27 PM »
Girolamo Frescobaldi - Canzone
Il Primo Libro delle Canzone, a una, due, tre e quattro voci per sonare con ogni sorte di stromenti (1628)

P.S.: Curiously, the 21th track of the second CD was defective when I played it in my CD player Advance Acoustic, but it worked correctly in my NAD CD player. Does anyone have this set to check that track?

Hello Antoine - I started a thread on Frescobaldi last year HERE (did not stimulate much interest  :-\)  - please post there w/ your impressions - and I'm interested in further additions to this project.

Concerning your question above, I just put on that 2nd disc and played track 21 - no problem on my system - really a 'pain' to get a 'digital glitch' on one machine to find the CD plays OK on others!  Good luck - Dave  :)

Offline The new erato

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Re: Frescobaldi, Girolamo - Italian Keyboard Pioneer!
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2010, 12:25:34 AM »
What do you think about Loreggian and his project, Premont? Apparently, Brilliant has issued 6 volumes to this date.
I actually played disc 1 from this set last night and my immediate reaction was that I wasn't particularly pleased with the recorded sound, it lacking the richness I expect from a moderne recording. This was particularly noticeable as it was played just after a state-of-the-art Harmonia Mundi disc. Also I'm not certain that every chip of Frescobaldi's workslate desperately needs to be recorded. As the discs are cheap, and I'm particularly into this period, I will buy the series anyway, as this is the only way to be absoutely sure.  :D I already have the two first sets.

Antoine Marchand

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Re: Frescobaldi, Girolamo - Italian Keyboard Pioneer!
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2010, 05:40:35 AM »
I actually played disc 1 from this set last night and my immediate reaction was that I wasn't particularly pleased with the recorded sound, it lacking the richness I expect from a moderne recording. This was particularly noticeable as it was played just after a state-of-the-art Harmonia Mundi disc. Also I'm not certain that every chip of Frescobaldi's workslate desperately needs to be recorded. As the discs are cheap, and I'm particularly into this period, I will buy the series anyway, as this is the only way to be absoutely sure.  :D I already have the two first sets.

Hi, Erato. I have not had problems with the sound quality of this series, but I am not entirely satisfied with Loreggian’s performances. I miss certain wider range of rhetorical expressiveness. This music is essentially erudite music, full of different forms and ideas that need to be rigorously contrasted; but I don't know if Loreggian is totally successful in this aspect. In that way, Jean-Marc Aymes (Ligia Digital) is, IMO, more satisfactory, although –like you- I have decided to collect all of these Brilliant discs. BTW, I am fully interested in that double disc by Sergio Vartolo on Naxos (Fantasie Book I, Ricercari, Canzoni Francesi).  :)     

Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Frescobaldi, Girolamo - Italian Keyboard Pioneer!
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2010, 06:55:25 AM »
What do you think about Loreggian and his project, Premont? Apparently, Brilliant has issued 6 volumes to this date.

Having listened to the two keyboard Toccata collections (vol. 1 and vol. 5) only once, I am not able to say much. But you prompted me to relisten to the Canzonas (vol.2) again, and I find the interpretations somewhat restrained and some of the instruments sounding a bit anonymous (the two cornets, the traverso and the viola da gamba the most). I miss some weight, some intensity and some drama. After all this music is an important step in the development of the instrumental stylus phantasticus. In this respect I find the recordings by the Fitzwilliam Ensemble (Astrée/Naive), Il Teatro alla Modo (Pierre Verany) and Musica Fiata (DHM) more satisfying.
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heldigt nok at tiden går.

Antoine Marchand

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Re: Frescobaldi, Girolamo - Italian Keyboard Pioneer!
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2010, 07:25:08 AM »
Hello Antoine - I started a thread on Frescobaldi last year HERE (did not stimulate much interest  :-\)  - please post there w/ your impressions - and I'm interested in further additions to this project.

Concerning your question above, I just put on that 2nd disc and played track 21 - no problem on my system - really a 'pain' to get a 'digital glitch' on one machine to find the CD plays OK on others!  Good luck - Dave  :)

Thanks for the reply, Dave. I have had some bad experiences with two or three Brilliant discs, especially one that I really love: Music from the Golden Age of Rembrandt, which has some horrible digital glitches. :( Anyway, a tremendous label.  :)

Certainly, I will post some commentaries on Frescobaldi when I listen to these new purchases more detailedly.

Antoine Marchand

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Re: Frescobaldi, Girolamo - Italian Keyboard Pioneer!
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2010, 07:30:57 AM »
Having listened to the two keyboard Toccata collections (vol. 1 and vol. 5) only once, I am not able to say much. But you prompted me to relisten to the Canzonas (vol.2) again, and I find the interpretations somewhat restrained and some of the instruments sounding a bit anonymous (the two cornets, the traverso and the viola da gamba the most). I miss some weight, some intensity and some drama. After all this music is an important step in the development of the instrumental stylus phantasticus. In this respect I find the recordings by the Fitzwilliam Ensemble (Astrée/Naive), Il Teatro alla Modo (Pierre Verany) and Musica Fiata (DHM) more satisfying.

Rather my own impressions: a certain lack of "eloquence" in the speech. 

Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

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Re: Frescobaldi, Girolamo - Italian Keyboard Pioneer!
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2010, 02:58:57 AM »
I'm finding a lot of Frescobaldi on YouTube and have been listening to it with various degrees of enjoyment.

I'm not really sure where to go with this composer, but I gather the keyboard music is important. Does anyone have an opinion on what would be the best 1 or 2 disc set of this stuff? Someone mentioned Vartolo on Naxos - how good is it?

Who really puts the fresco in Frescobaldi?
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

Antoine Marchand

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Re: Frescobaldi, Girolamo - Italian Keyboard Pioneer!
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2010, 01:43:56 PM »
... I'm not really sure where to go with this composer, but I gather the keyboard music is important. Does anyone have an opinion on what would be the best 1 or 2 disc set of this stuff?...
Who really puts the fresco in Frescobaldi?

Hi, Velimir.

Although during the last years I have gone away from Pierre Hantaï in several recordings, I consider his Partite & Tocatte (Astrée-Naïve) as an exemplar disc, entirely representative of the Frescobaldi’s keyboard art.

My preferred canzoni are by Tripla Concordia on Nuova Era – I just have the vol. 2, 2CDs-, but unfortunately those recordings are absolutely OOP. Anyway, Amazon offers extracts and MP3 downloadings.

Here Hantaï playing the Toccata Settima (1627) [I would recommend to change the resolution from 360p to 480p]:


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/cKwRUlAvZtM" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/cKwRUlAvZtM</a>


 :)

« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 02:00:28 PM by Antoine Marchand »

Offline Josquin des Prez

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Re: Frescobaldi, Girolamo - Italian Keyboard Pioneer!
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2010, 09:21:25 AM »
Just got the first book of Toccatas by Loreggian. Where Vartolo was too straitlaced this guy is way too incoherent and his ornaments are just all over the place. I wish i could get my hands on the set by Alessandrini, but its very hard to find. Plus, there is no indication he's ever going to work on the second book.

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