Author Topic: Photos of Beethoven and Franz Schubert  (Read 13638 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline JoshLilly

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 402
  • Joachim Raff, the greatest!
Photos of Beethoven and Franz Schubert
« on: June 05, 2007, 05:04:04 AM »
Er... yep. Supposedly. I've read that when the bodies were exhumed in the 1880s that photographs were taken. Do these photographs still survive? I assume that by that time both would have been only the skeletal remains, but I am curious as to whether these photographs were preserved. And also a bit curious as to why this was done. I don't think they had sufficient equipment or processes to determined much of value by examining the skeletons in that time. I'm sure they could discover a little bit, but I'm not really sure what. Maybe it was one of those phrenology things; all I've seen is that it was for "scientists" to examine the bodies.

Joe Barron

  • Guest
Re: Photos of Beethoven and Franz Schubert
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2007, 06:17:50 AM »
This was news to me, but a quick Internet search shows that Beethoven was dinsinterred twice — the first time in 1863, when he was reburied in a more secure casket inside a brick vault, and again on June 22, 1888, when he was exhumed from the Währinger Cemetery, measured and moved to the Central Cemetery in Vienna, Austria. His skull was photographed at this time, and a cast was made:



Schubert was disinterred and reburied along with him each time.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2007, 06:26:09 AM by Joe Barron »

Offline JoshLilly

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 402
  • Joachim Raff, the greatest!
Re: Photos of Beethoven and Franz Schubert
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2007, 08:04:32 AM »
There's one photo. Thanks!
I hear that Bruckner actually held Beethoven's skull in 1888.

Steve

  • Guest
Re: Photos of Beethoven and Franz Schubert
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2007, 09:53:26 AM »
This was news to me, but a quick Internet search shows that Beethoven was dinsinterred twice ? the first time in 1863, when he was reburied in a more secure casket inside a brick vault, and again on June 22, 1888, when he was exhumed from the Währinger Cemetery, measured and moved to the Central Cemetery in Vienna, Austria. His skull was photographed at this time, and a cast was made:



Schubert was disinterred and reburied along with him each time.

Was he found with the score of the 10th?  ;D

Offline Bogey

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 13492
  • Location: Colorado
Re: Photos of Beethoven and Franz Schubert
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2007, 10:18:47 AM »
FWIW:

Beethoven's "life-mask", made by Franz Klein in 1812, when the composer was 42 years old.

There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Joe Barron

  • Guest
Re: Photos of Beethoven and Franz Schubert
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2007, 10:35:51 AM »
Was he found with the score of the 10th?  ;D

He was too busy decomposing.

Josh, my internet sources say Bruckner held Schubert's skull before it was reinterred in 1888. It may be he held Beethoven's, too.

Offline Bogey

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 13492
  • Location: Colorado
Re: Photos of Beethoven and Franz Schubert
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2007, 10:51:55 AM »
This from the web:

Schubert, Andreas Theodor, b Vienna 7th Nov 1823, d 1893
Financial Councillor
Andreas was Schubert's stepbrother, aged just 5 at his death. Mind you, this didn't stop him from identifying a picture (the 'chalk picture') of a youth as being Schubert at 16. He does seem to have been more than a little irreverent - he took a tooth from Schubert's skull when it was exhumed, and destroyed the manuscript of Der Tod und das Mädchen, D531; by cutting it up into 8 pieces for souvenirs. He was also apparently the source of the rumour that Schubert was banned from the family home. He became a financial councillor, and married Anna Fleurriet.
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Offline Bogey

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 13492
  • Location: Colorado
Re: Photos of Beethoven and Franz Schubert
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2007, 10:54:32 AM »
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

mahlertitan

  • Guest
Re: Photos of Beethoven and Franz Schubert
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2007, 11:09:52 AM »
Bruckner sure liked dead bodies.

Scriptavolant

  • Guest
Re: Photos of Beethoven and Franz Schubert
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2007, 01:56:14 PM »
Here's a graceful website for corpses lovers:

http://www.findagrave.com/
« Last Edit: June 05, 2007, 02:02:03 PM by Doctor_Gradus »

Offline Solitary Wanderer

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3129
  • 'She walks in beauty...like the night' ~ Byron
Re: Photos of Beethoven and Franz Schubert
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2007, 02:40:32 PM »
Here's a graceful website for corpses lovers:

http://www.findagrave.com/


Interesting site. Thanks for the link  :)
'I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth.' ~ Emily Bronte

Churchmouse

  • Guest
Re: Photos of Beethoven and Franz Schubert
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2011, 11:39:58 PM »
FWIW:

Beethoven's "life-mask", made by Franz Klein in 1812, when the composer was 42 years old.













I think the skull bones of Beethoven  seems  wider in the head than the death mask.   



.

cilgwyn

  • Guest
Re: Photos of Beethoven and Franz Schubert
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2011, 01:47:26 AM »
What a macabre but gruesomely interesting thread. More skulls and death masks of great (and minor) composers please!

Churchmouse

  • Guest
Re: Photos of Beethoven and Franz Schubert
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2011, 02:19:34 AM »
Wasn't there studies of lead poisoning done from the bones of the skull? 

cilgwyn

  • Guest
Re: Photos of Beethoven and Franz Schubert
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2011, 08:24:32 AM »
Oyez! Oyez! Bring out you're dead.

Scarpia

  • Guest
Re: Photos of Beethoven and Franz Schubert
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2011, 08:28:40 AM »
Wasn't there studies of lead poisoning done from the bones of the skull?

Hair, I thought.

kishnevi

  • Guest
Re: Photos of Beethoven and Franz Schubert
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2014, 04:40:16 PM »
Bump in honor of Halloween.

Offline Jo498

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 5480
  • Location: Germany
Re: Photos of Beethoven and Franz Schubert
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2014, 12:50:56 AM »
The mask depicted is actually a cast (inverse cast?) of the living Beethoven as said in the post. Of course, there's also a death mask where he looks considerably more... dead?



Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)