Author Topic: Bach Johannes-Passion / St. John Passion  (Read 42050 times)

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Offline Coopmv

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Re: Bach Johannes-Passion / St. John Passion
« Reply #60 on: August 01, 2009, 03:21:20 PM »

 

This is now on my shopping list ...

Offline knight66

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Re: Bach Johannes-Passion / St. John Passion
« Reply #61 on: August 01, 2009, 03:26:22 PM »
AM, Thanks for the clip, it is beautiful. Odd that the soloists are made to look like accountants. More appropriate for the St Matthew.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Antoine Marchand

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Re: Bach Johannes-Passion / St. John Passion
« Reply #62 on: August 01, 2009, 03:29:08 PM »
 

This is now on my shopping list ...

The artwork in those discs is really stunning.

Offline Bogey

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Re: Bach Johannes-Passion / St. John Passion
« Reply #63 on: August 01, 2009, 03:34:32 PM »
Testing the the Herreweghe as I type.  It is to my liking.  The Veldhoven I did not care for as much after sampling compared the Herreweghe.  I cannot find a Kuijken.  Any help with this would be appreciated, if one exists.  Same with the Forster.  No samples found yet.
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Antoine Marchand

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Re: Bach Johannes-Passion / St. John Passion
« Reply #64 on: August 01, 2009, 03:35:05 PM »
AM, Thanks for the clip, it is beautiful. Odd that the soloists are made to look like accountants.

Mike

 ;D

You're welcome, Mike.

Offline Novi

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Re: Bach Johannes-Passion / St. John Passion
« Reply #65 on: August 01, 2009, 08:07:44 PM »
Testing the the Herreweghe as I type.  It is to my liking.  The Veldhoven I did not care for as much after sampling compared the Herreweghe.  I cannot find a Kuijken.  Any help with this would be appreciated, if one exists.  Same with the Forster.  No samples found yet.

Here you go Bill:

Kuijken

Forster

Great thread. :) I have Gardiner, Suzuki, and eek! an English version with Britten (which actually isn't so bad depending on how you feel about Peter Pears). None of these really stand out though. These two sound interesting. It's hard to gauge from the clips, but I like the sense of urgency in the Forster. Having said that, the Kuijken/Leonhardt box is also very attractive, as I really like Leonhardt's B Minor Mass.
Durch alle Töne tönet
Im bunten Erdentraum
Ein leiser Ton gezogen
Für den der heimlich lauschet.

Offline Novi

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Re: Bach Johannes-Passion / St. John Passion
« Reply #66 on: August 01, 2009, 08:08:53 PM »
(Fafner coming out of his cave with a big yawn).... 8)


Thanks for the interesting post, Lilas. Great read!
Durch alle Töne tönet
Im bunten Erdentraum
Ein leiser Ton gezogen
Für den der heimlich lauschet.

Offline The new erato

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Re: Bach Johannes-Passion / St. John Passion
« Reply #67 on: August 01, 2009, 10:26:23 PM »
Very interesting thread as my recordings of the St John's lags seriously behind my St Matthew's. In fact I have only the Cleoburys on Brilliant which nobody have mentioned - has anybody heard it?  BTW; I like it a lot, though my expertise here obviously is severely limited.

Offline Marc

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Re: Bach Johannes-Passion / St. John Passion
« Reply #68 on: August 02, 2009, 02:25:40 AM »
Very interesting thread as my recordings of the St John's lags seriously behind my St Matthew's. In fact I have only the Cleoburys on Brilliant which nobody have mentioned - has anybody heard it?  BTW; I like it a lot, though my expertise here obviously is severely limited.

Cleobury: not bad. It's a bit like Gardiner. Of course, Cleobury is available at Brilliant Classics, which means it's a bargain. Boys choir (in English tradition, with sometimes sloppy German), but a very good evangelist: John Mark Ainsley. Catherine Bott (soprano) was a disappointment to me, though. Extras on this set: choruses and arias from the 1725 version.

About Van Veldhoven, mentioned by some: IMO, that's a good one. Van Veldhoven is always solid in Bach, with affectionate readings.
The only problem I have with his SJP are the tenor arias. These two belong to my favourites, and Van Veldhoven is choosing really odd tempi for them. The first one is taken very slow and easy, whilst the singer should be in anguish .... and the second one is extremely fast, whilst the singer is inviting the listeners to entirely share and experience the suffering of Jesus. So I think Van Veldhoven got mixed and messed up a bit here! ;D
« Last Edit: August 02, 2009, 02:30:39 AM by Marc »
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Offline Marc

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Re: Bach Johannes-Passion / St. John Passion
« Reply #69 on: August 02, 2009, 02:36:14 AM »
I have both Luke and Marc.... [....]

Sorry?

IN YOUR DREAMS! :P

No....in my disc collection.

Quite an honour. ;D
Which part am I singing?
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Offline knight66

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Re: Bach Johannes-Passion / St. John Passion
« Reply #70 on: August 02, 2009, 02:52:24 AM »
I sacked you. You were singing too loudly.  $:)

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Offline knight66

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Re: Bach Johannes-Passion / St. John Passion
« Reply #71 on: August 02, 2009, 03:06:08 AM »
This morning I listened through to my Forster recording. I have now become quite wedded to HIP in Bach, the orchestral palate sounds so alive. The modern instruments have a different range of tone and it dulls down the lightness of the textures.

The solo singing was first rate. I do like characterful renditions. A number of modern singers produce a relatively white sound. The biggest difference though, apart from the orchestral sound, is that now we expect the choir to sound fleet; no booming bases or braying at the top of the men's range. I am not saying that Foster's choir was other than musical, but the weight feels much more Romantic, as against the dynamism of the best modern choirs in this music. The best also manage the drama excellently.

I listened through to the linked clips from Kuijken, delectable woodwind and all excellent really.

I then went to the Harnoncourt all male St Matthew, here I heard exactly what I don't like. Hooty tone from the boys and I never can understand the idea of designating some of Bach's most profound contemplative arias to lads who know next to nothing of life and barely manage to negotiate the notes in tune. Bach may well have done it, but I think that an adult soprano has a much greater chance of communicating the often quite extreme emotions that Bach exposes.

Mike

DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Offline Marc

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Re: Bach Johannes-Passion / St. John Passion
« Reply #72 on: August 02, 2009, 03:07:10 AM »
I sacked you. You were singing too loudly.  $:)

>:(

Some quotes came to mind:
Look at my face. Am I bovvered? (The Catherine Tate Show)

Altered quote:
Spike: What's up?
X: Mike just sacked Marc.
Spike: You daft prick.

(Notting Hill)

;D
« Last Edit: August 02, 2009, 03:09:58 AM by Marc »
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Offline Coopmv

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Re: Bach Johannes-Passion / St. John Passion
« Reply #73 on: August 02, 2009, 03:12:35 AM »
Cleobury: not bad. It's a bit like Gardiner. Of course, Cleobury is available at Brilliant Classics, which means it's a bargain. Boys choir (in English tradition, with sometimes sloppy German), but a very good evangelist: John Mark Ainsley. Catherine Bott (soprano) was a disappointment to me, though. Extras on this set: choruses and arias from the 1725 version.

About Van Veldhoven, mentioned by some: IMO, that's a good one. Van Veldhoven is always solid in Bach, with affectionate readings.
The only problem I have with his SJP are the tenor arias. These two belong to my favourites, and Van Veldhoven is choosing really odd tempi for them. The first one is taken very slow and easy, whilst the singer should be in anguish .... and the second one is extremely fast, whilst the singer is inviting the listeners to entirely share and experience the suffering of Jesus. So I think Van Veldhoven got mixed and messed up a bit here! ;D
 

I am really not all that impressed with Cleobury based on his Handel's Coronation Anthems.  John Eliot Gardiner did a much better job for that work ...

Offline Bogey

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Re: Bach Johannes-Passion / St. John Passion
« Reply #74 on: August 02, 2009, 03:35:10 AM »
Here you go Bill:

Kuijken

Forster

Great thread. :) I have Gardiner, Suzuki, and eek! an English version with Britten (which actually isn't so bad depending on how you feel about Peter Pears). None of these really stand out though. These two sound interesting. It's hard to gauge from the clips, but I like the sense of urgency in the Forster. Having said that, the Kuijken/Leonhardt box is also very attractive, as I really like Leonhardt's B Minor Mass.


Thanks Novi.  I really liked what I heard in the Kuijken.  The Forster did not get a fair shake here, but at least there are two I have enjoyed through sampling (the other the Herreweghe).  However, fun to have someone new for Bach on the shelf.
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Offline knight66

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Re: Bach Johannes-Passion / St. John Passion
« Reply #75 on: August 02, 2009, 04:11:09 AM »
>:(

Look at my face. Am I bovvered?
;D

 ;D
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Bulldog

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Re: Bach Johannes-Passion / St. John Passion
« Reply #76 on: August 02, 2009, 09:27:43 AM »
Great thread. :) I have Gardiner, Suzuki, and eek! an English version with Britten (which actually isn't so bad depending on how you feel about Peter Pears). None of these really stand out though. These two sound interesting. It's hard to gauge from the clips, but I like the sense of urgency in the Forster. Having said that, the Kuijken/Leonhardt box is also very attractive, as I really like Leonhardt's B Minor Mass.


Yes, the Leonhardt B Minor Mass is my favorite on record.

Offline Marc

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Re: Bach Johannes-Passion / St. John Passion
« Reply #77 on: August 02, 2009, 07:48:06 PM »
I am really not all that impressed with Cleobury based on his Handel's Coronation Anthems. John Eliot Gardiner did a much better job for that work ...

Well, maybe Cleobury does a better job with Bach. :)
His is a rather bold and straightforward reading of the SJP. If one likes that .... then it's a bargain.

But indeed: Gardiner has got a lot of merits, too, plus more.
For instance: listening to Nancy Argenta sing Zerfließe, mein Herze is an everlasting repeated moving experience. 0:)
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jlaurson

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Re: Bach Johannes-Passion / St. John Passion
« Reply #78 on: August 03, 2009, 06:40:03 AM »
I'm very, very fond of Herreweghe's St.John.

Wrote about it in anticipation of a live performance in NYC a few years back... with several recordings mentioned.

Music for Easter
http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=107

Offline Bogey

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Re: Bach Johannes-Passion / St. John Passion
« Reply #79 on: August 03, 2009, 08:55:06 AM »
Went with the Kuijken....thanks for the suggestions and the great background info, folks.
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz