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Author Topic: Havergal Brian.  (Read 109481 times)

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Offline J.Z. Herrenberg

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Re: Havergal Brian.
« Reply #4140 on: February 16, 2012, 01:03:47 PM »
Have you listened to Curt's restoration yet? It sounds very good I must say.


I listened to it 3 times already... We've come a long way, it sounds perfectly acceptable! I wonder what Curt's 'secret ingredient' consists of? A voodoo ritual?


Great composer, Havergal Brian.  ;D
"O infinite virtue, com’st thou smiling from
The world’s great snare uncaught?"

(Antony and Cleopatra, Act 4, Scene 8 )

Offline calyptorhynchus

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Re: Havergal Brian.
« Reply #4141 on: February 16, 2012, 07:33:23 PM »
I’ve been listening to The Tigers again, and whilst I’m even more impressed by it, at the same time I’m even more intrigued by it.

Most of the discussion of it seems to focus on the ‘anti-war’ aspects of it. But I find the anti-war, anti-militarism aspects of the opera quite muted. The Tigers are presumably a Territorial Army regiment, not a regular army regiment, and the opera isn’t set during WW1, but just as it begins, with a false alarm of a Zeppelin attack occurring in the final act. It could almost be understood as Kitchener’s New Army ruefully nostalgic view of ‘how we were before the war’, how unprofessional the army was, how we underestimated what total war would be like. (Note how the Colonel of the Tigers, Sir John Stout, whilst depicted as absurd and given to issuing nonsensical and contradictory orders, is actually treated quite sympathetically).

You can see there’s a lot of satire of operas like Hugh the Drover, showing the English folk going about their traditional business, in The Tigers, and this type of action is disrupted by farce (the young man on the elephant being chased by police, the illiterate stall holders, the soldier-worshipping clergy and so forth), but not by brutal reality, and there is a sense that these elements are still valid, for example the way that Columbine and Pantaloon emerge from the Carnival at the end of the Prelude, or the Tigers making merry with the harvestgirls rather than taking part in military manoeuvres (as you would).

The way I think I understand the opera is that it is saying that both the pre-war Edwardian summer of Englishness greatness and our knowledge of the horrors of the War (actually not articulated in the opera) are not real responses to the experience of the last so many years of late C19 and early C20 life (Brian’s life-time). What are the real responses? where do they come from? Perhaps, the opera suggests, they come from the life of the untrammelled, dream-like imagination that is presented to us in the opera in the Symphonic Dances which contain the most amazingly impressive music (NB the title of these, is Brian saying, ‘well here’s an opera, but I think my symphonies will contain my real imaginative life’ ?).

This is underlined by the fact that here, as in the Gothic, the voices are subordinated to the music. That is, whilst the words and the word-setting, vocal melodies &c are not incompetent or uninteresting, the main interest in the Opera is in the orchestral music, and the most impressive vocal writing is where the voices, usually the chorus, becomes a part of the orchestra and what they are singing is less important than the sound they make (again as with the Gothic).

I think that in this opera Brian was doing something similar to what he did in writing the Gothic, thinking in effect ‘right, they’re not performing my music, I don’t care, I’ll just write the most extraordinary music I am capable of, with no regard for any practicalities of performance, that’ll show them’. I don’t think we ever see this opera staged (how do you have an elephant on stage? Or a dog and a donkey fighting?), but it did occur to me that what we might see, and this would apply to other operas where the staging is a problem, like The Ring, is a studio performance coupled on a DVD with sophisticated art-cartoon version of the opera.

The music, it goes without saying. is of the most incredible power and delicacy. I am reminded of the C19 inventor who used his newly-invented steam-hammer to crack an egg. Contrary to the heresies flying around here about Brian’s orchestration, I think he was one of the masters of the orchestra of the C20, if a passage sounds to someone with a good knowledge of classical music as thick, heavy and inappropriate, then presumably this is exactly what Brian intended, and you have to ask what this means for an understanding of the work. You can find plenty of examples in The Tigers of music that is deliberately plodding and thick, and these are for satiric or parodic purposes, so the same would hold true for such passages in the symphonies.

One final thing I noted with amusement was how the theme of an older man in love with a younger woman crops up, with Columbine and Pantaloon in the Prelude and with Sir John Stout and Mrs Pamela Freebody in the rest of the opera. Is this a reflection on Brian relationship with his second wife, who was younger than him?

Offline J.Z. Herrenberg

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Re: Havergal Brian.
« Reply #4142 on: February 17, 2012, 12:01:26 AM »
Here is #497 of this thread. See the next post for the preceding one... Took me some time to find them...



Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on 22-12-2010, 21:50:35
Courtesy of your good self, Albion, I listened to the whole of 'The Tigers' again yesterday. Whether the 'opera' is successful as an opera is a moot point. What is most striking is the dream logic that informs everything. And the music that follows from that is Brian at his most mercurial and original. I can see him 'working through', in a satirical fashion, World War 1, but also his failed first marriage. Colonel Sir John Stout is for me the protagonist of the opera, not the eponymous regiment. I wonder whether his delusions of grandeur - dreaming about Alexander and Napoleon, amongst others - isn't Brian poking fun at himself at this point in his career when he definitively became a great composer. Your point about Dada is interesting. But I think Brian's satire is intensely English and draws its inspiration from the music hall, Dickens, Hogarth et al. Brian, with his working-class background, takes a swipe at the British class system. He 'hides' in a colonel, who is unhappily married, feels old, and senses a new beginning in the outrageous(ly funny) Pamela Freebody (a very speaking name, that!) His decision, in Act Three, to meet her again tomorrow is - I discovered yesterday - the central decision of the whole opera. After that the music descends into comic pandemonium, as a precursor of the social opprobrium that the colonel's decision will cause him, like it did Brian (who fell in love with the maid, whom he later married, and was divorced by his first wife).


That's my new understanding of 'The Tigers'. For which I have to thank you (indirectly)!


P.S. What Dutton did with 'The Gothic', they might do with 'The Tigers'...
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 12:43:07 AM by J. Z. Herrenberg »
"O infinite virtue, com’st thou smiling from
The world’s great snare uncaught?"

(Antony and Cleopatra, Act 4, Scene 8 )

Offline J.Z. Herrenberg

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Re: Havergal Brian.
« Reply #4143 on: February 17, 2012, 12:42:00 AM »
Here is #496...
Quote from: Albion on 22-12-2010, 05:07:32
By some miracle, my tapes managed to survive more or less intact (apart from a tiny bit of echo and some distortion) long enough to make it into the CD-transfer age!

Listening to
The Tigers, it has always struck me that Brian must have been aware of the Dada movement, at it's peak between 1916 and 1922, and not only by the anti-war stance that both represent. He produced an unprecedented absurdist anti-opera in which, despite some pseudo-heroic posturing by the Colonel, nothing really happens at all. Characters speak in everyday language, others appear only to disappear again, and then there is the peculiarity of that huge dream-like Prologue which completely dwarfs the tiny first act proper (in itself, the Prologue is perhaps one of the most startlingly original things that even Brian created - one of my favourite moments is when Pantalon says of his supposed rival for Columbine's affections "I'll hit him with a carrot").

What is really needed is a full and luxuriously-presented commercial release of this wonderful performance - one of the best and most enterprising that the BBC has ever initiated. We may never see it staged, but then perhaps the visual element is best left to the imagination anyway!
"O infinite virtue, com’st thou smiling from
The world’s great snare uncaught?"

(Antony and Cleopatra, Act 4, Scene 8 )

Offline John Whitmore

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Re: Havergal Brian.
« Reply #4144 on: February 17, 2012, 06:42:58 AM »

I listened to it 3 times already... We've come a long way, it sounds perfectly acceptable! I wonder what Curt's 'secret ingredient' consists of? A voodoo ritual?
Great composer, Havergal Brian.  ;D
Even that wouldn't make the 4th tolerable. Half decent composer, Havergal Brian ;)

Offline thranx

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Re: Havergal Brian.
« Reply #4145 on: February 19, 2012, 11:09:35 AM »
Given the advances, both contemporary and ongoing, in the art of theatrical puppetry (The Lion King, War Horse), I would think at least a moderately representational elephant on stage would no longer be an insurmountable problem.

Offline John Whitmore

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Re: Havergal Brian.
« Reply #4146 on: February 20, 2012, 01:31:54 AM »
Just by way of an update the HBS members area archive section now has a number of press reviews and cuttings from the LSSO 1970s Brian performances and recordings.

Offline cilgwyn

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Re: Havergal Brian.
« Reply #4147 on: February 25, 2012, 07:28:26 AM »
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2012/Jan12/DL_roundup_Jan12_2.htm

Just in case anyone hasn't seen it,there is another review of the 'Hyperion Gothic' on Musicweb*. If the link doesn't work :( just look under 'January 2012 downloads round up'!) Or something like that,anyway! ;D It's VERY postive,so no need to wail,beat you're chest or get out the a dram of the strong stuff.....except to toast the reviewer,perhaps! ;D

* NB: You'll need to scroll down quite some way to find it!
« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 07:34:58 AM by cilgwyn »

Offline J.Z. Herrenberg

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Re: Havergal Brian.
« Reply #4148 on: February 25, 2012, 07:34:00 AM »
Quote from: cilgwyn on Today at 16:28:26>http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2012/Jan12/DL_roundup_Jan12_2.htm

Just in case anyone hasn't seen it,there is another review of the 'Hyperion Gothic' on Musicweb. If the link doesn't work :( just look under 'January 2012 downloads round up'!) Or something like that,anyway! ;D It's VERY postive,so no need to wail,beat you're chest or get out the a dram of the strong stuff.....except to toast the reviewer,perhaps! ;D



I read it earlier and thanked the writer on Twitter...
"O infinite virtue, com’st thou smiling from
The world’s great snare uncaught?"

(Antony and Cleopatra, Act 4, Scene 8 )

Offline cilgwyn

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Re: Havergal Brian.
« Reply #4149 on: February 25, 2012, 07:37:13 AM »
A "Damascene conversion"! :) You can't go much better than that! :) :) :)

Offline J.Z. Herrenberg

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Re: Havergal Brian.
« Reply #4150 on: February 25, 2012, 07:40:44 AM »
Quote from: cilgwyn on Today at 16:37:13
A "Damascene conversion"! :) You can't go much better than that! :) :) :)



His first name was Stan. Now it's Dan.
"O infinite virtue, com’st thou smiling from
The world’s great snare uncaught?"

(Antony and Cleopatra, Act 4, Scene 8 )

Offline cilgwyn

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Re: Havergal Brian.
« Reply #4151 on: February 25, 2012, 07:58:41 AM »
 ;D He's on his way back from Damascus,right now (or the metaphorical equivalent!)I notice he shares my negative response to the Naxos,but compares the revelatory impact of Brabbins's performance to Horenstein's eighth.
 I had a quick look at a review of a cd release of Horenstein's eighth & I was interested to note that the original BBC transcription had 17 minutes of applause,which,'unfortunately,according to the reviewer,was not included. This would have been more than twice as long as the applause preserved on the Hyperion release!

http://www.classicalcdreview.com/horenstein.html

encore!!! ;D


Offline J.Z. Herrenberg

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Re: Havergal Brian.
« Reply #4152 on: February 25, 2012, 08:03:12 AM »
Interesting review. I must have that recording. O, by the way, if I remember correctly - the applause after the Gothic went on for about 12 minutes...
"O infinite virtue, com’st thou smiling from
The world’s great snare uncaught?"

(Antony and Cleopatra, Act 4, Scene 8 )

Offline cilgwyn

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Re: Havergal Brian.
« Reply #4153 on: February 25, 2012, 08:12:35 AM »
 :( Hm! I though that! I enjoy Mahler's eighth,when I have enough time (!);but I must admit,I don't find it one of his most convincing,structurally,however thrilling it undoubtedly is. I looked the Horenstein 8 up on Amazon just now,but too late for the deletions axe,I fear! "Currently unavailable!" :) Horenstein's famous third is another one that forever eludes me,thanks to extortionate seller prices. Still,they need the money,I suppose!(So do I!!! :() The one I heard years ago was in my local library. Those were the days!

Twelve minutes? Oops! Eight minutes for the 'Gothic'? How dare I?!!! >:D
« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 08:15:49 AM by cilgwyn »

Offline cilgwyn

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Re: Havergal Brian.
« Reply #4154 on: February 25, 2012, 08:20:58 AM »
Mahler 3 Horenstein. £65.89p,and look at the ratings! :o That's two weeks shopping,even if I was daft enough to buy it! Come on Regis,Alto? Where are you when you're needed?
You could have probably found this on a s/h market stall,a few years ago,for next to nothing!

The Groves Delius Mass of Life is another one! Curse the deletions axe! Still,you just have to keep looking. I recently obtained the original emi release of the Groves VW Hugh the Drover s/h & well worth the wait it was! :)
I notice,the Meredith Davies 'Village Romeo & Juliet' has now been reissued. I have the Mackerras recording,at present. I suppose I should grab it while I can!!!!

Back to Brian! :o ;D

If some genius DOES bring out the Ole Schmidt 'Gothic' on cd the BBC are going to HAVE to do a 'Building a library'!

« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 10:16:31 AM by cilgwyn »

Offline John Whitmore

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Re: Havergal Brian.
« Reply #4155 on: February 25, 2012, 10:16:44 AM »
Mahler 3 Horenstein. £65.89p,and look at the ratings! :o That's two weeks shopping,even if I was daft enough to buy it! Come on Regis,Alto? Where are you when you're needed?
You could have probably found this on a s/h market stall,a few years ago,for next to nothing!

The Groves Delius Mass of Life is another one! Curse the deletions axe! Still,you just have to keep looking. I recently obtained the original emi release of the Groves VW Hugh the Drover s/h & well worth the wait it was! :)
I notice,the Meredith Davies 'Village Romeo & Juliet' has now been reissued. I have the Mackerras recording,at present. I suppose I should grab it while I can!!!!

Back to Brian! :o ;D

If some genius DOES bring out the Ole Schmidt 'Gothic' on cd the BBC are going to have to do a 'Building a library'!
The Horenstein Mahler 3 (Unicorn) is in a cheap set of the complete Mahler cycle on Brilliant Classics. Used to be around 20 quid for the box. You might get it second hand for around 30 now if you look. There are plenty of the Groves/Delius sets knocking around on Ebay for a tenner.

Offline Winky Willy

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Re: Havergal Brian.
« Reply #4156 on: February 25, 2012, 12:54:21 PM »
Does ANYONE have "The Tigers" recording on their computer as a digital file, or does it continue to exist merely on old tape recordings, because that broadcast was FAR before my time, and I would love to hear the opera. If anyone does have the recording on their computer, would he/she be willing to send it to me or to upload it to a filesharing site or Youtube? It irks me that, since I can't "hear" music just by reading scores, I have NO way of hearing the Tigers, which I really want to hear and compare to the Gothic.

Offline Dundonnell

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Re: Havergal Brian.
« Reply #4157 on: February 25, 2012, 01:54:46 PM »
Interesting review. I must have that recording. O, by the way, if I remember correctly - the applause after the Gothic went on for about 12 minutes...

That was because you kept on cheering after everybody else had gone home ;D ;D

No, that's NOT true.........but Seriously......I am informed that the latest edition of the French music magazine 'Classica' has made the Gothic their recording of the month and that there is a very enthusiastic review by the eminent French critic Michel Fleury :)

Offline J.Z. Herrenberg

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Re: Havergal Brian.
« Reply #4158 on: February 25, 2012, 02:19:29 PM »
Haha!
 
 I noticed I had gone on too long, when I got that withering look from maestro Brabbins.
 
 Re the French review - I remember reading it, after I saw it mentioned on Twitter. Vive la France!
"O infinite virtue, com’st thou smiling from
The world’s great snare uncaught?"

(Antony and Cleopatra, Act 4, Scene 8 )

Offline Winky Willy

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Re: Havergal Brian.
« Reply #4159 on: February 25, 2012, 02:45:30 PM »
Also does anyone have recordings of the Music Dramas? (Agamemnon, the Cenci, Turandot)?

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