Author Topic: Ferneyhough's Plough  (Read 14525 times)

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Offline snyprrr

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Re: Ferneyhough's Plough
« Reply #120 on: October 15, 2016, 07:33:22 AM »
Those are good posts! I had to read them in broken google translate English, but still nice find.

Ferneyhough seems to combine melodic/harmonic writing with sonic/soundsapce writing to create extremely complex, constructive, and developmental music that straddles the edge between these opposites. And by complex, as that guy Lucien said, it is complexity in the relations and development of the material, not just immediate complexity of the sound.

What I like about his music is that even if one cannot, and probably should not, follow most of the syntactical relations at even a gut level, one can still pick up on his living, breathing musical organisms at various sorts of angles. There's so much subtlety going on, and one cannot follow even most of it, but one can still experience the organism, even in one's individual way.

His music is primal and outdoorsy, even evocative of images of ghosts, wind wisps, tribal rites. It is not existential. It is cerebrally personal while not emotionally personal. In short,while I have no idea how it works, and one probably would need extensive study to figure out how it does, anyone can pick up on and follow the waves of his music, so complex in structure but perceived by the listener as an organic wave. And perceived differently by each listener.

Thanks for raising the bar here... but... but... HOW DO YOU PRONOUNCE HIS NAME??!!?? That's what's really important!! $:)


No, a very enjoyable Post... I do find Dillon MORE primal and outdoorsy... I imagine that "he who has a more psycho-spiritual bent will make ever more 'fantastical' music"... I don't know Ferney's "religion", but, I imagine that a strict atheist would not be able to come up with out-of-the-box solutions...imaginations... uhh... yet I don't know what "Christian" AvantGarde music would sound like...hmmm... lots of trumpets???? no strings???

oy- not firing on cylinders this morn, lol




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Offline jessop

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Re: Ferneyhough's Plough
« Reply #121 on: October 15, 2016, 12:36:57 PM »
I agree re Dillon.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Ferneyhough's Plough
« Reply #122 on: March 04, 2017, 12:15:45 PM »
Those are good posts! I had to read them in broken google translate English, but still nice find.

Ferneyhough seems to combine melodic/harmonic writing with sonic/soundsapce writing to create extremely complex, constructive, and developmental music that straddles the edge between these opposites. And by complex, as that guy Lucien said, it is complexity in the relations and development of the material, not just immediate complexity of the sound.

What I like about his music is that even if one cannot, and probably should not, follow most of the syntactical relations at even a gut level, one can still pick up on his living, breathing musical organisms at various sorts of angles. There's so much subtlety going on, and one cannot follow even most of it, but one can still experience the organism, even in one's individual way.

His music is primal and outdoorsy, even evocative of images of ghosts, wind wisps, tribal rites. It is not existential. It is cerebrally personal while not emotionally personal. In short,while I have no idea how it works, and one probably would need extensive study to figure out how it does, anyone can pick up on and follow the waves of his music, so complex in structure but perceived by the listener as an organic wave. And perceived differently by each listener.

I note that Lucien has now made another epic post which prompted me to listen to Inconjunctions  this morning, with great pleasure. I do wonder though if Ferneyhough's selling out, becoming simpler, more melodic . . . I can't even say it . . . the word sticks in my throat . . .

romantic
« Last Edit: March 04, 2017, 12:20:52 PM by Mandryka »
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Offline bwv 1080

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Re: Ferneyhough's Plough
« Reply #123 on: May 18, 2017, 01:08:31 PM »
If you ever wondered just how accurate the rhythms in noted recordings compare to the score, this piece does a computer analysis:

http://epubs.surrey.ac.uk/807043/8/8.%20Chapter%205%20.pdf

Using a John Williams recording of a Bach Bouree as a control, JW 4 seconds into the piece is early by .335 seconds, but on most of the notes is within hundreths of a second vs. the computer's perfect time (p.19)

Geoffery Morris's recording of Kurze Schatten II gets off by as much as 2.5 seconds (p 7)

Incredibly, percussionist Vanessa   Tomlinson   is about as accurate in her Bone Alphabet recording as JW is playing Bach


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Offline millionrainbows

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Re: Ferneyhough's Plough
« Reply #124 on: May 22, 2017, 09:31:04 AM »
The score reminds me of John Cage's Freeman Etudes:


Paul Zukofsky thought the score was humanly unplayable, but Irvine Arditti tackled it and proved him wrong. Some accommodations were made, such as "as fast as possible" and other things. Cage was actually inspired by this experience to finish the composition (originally written for Zukovsky), after Zukovsky had abandoned it.

It seems that problems like this, of complexity, are one of the things that are being grappled with and being dealt with in modern notation & performance practices. I've heard the same thing about Stockhausen's scores, like "too many dynamic markings, impossible to play, etc."

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Ferneyhough's Plough
« Reply #125 on: May 22, 2017, 11:11:03 AM »
Quote from: Brian Ferneyhough in Andre Ford, "Composer on Composer"
I like performances in which the accumulated psychic and physical momentum of successively confronting lengthy spans of material lends the interpretation an unearthly radiance -- the performers themselves are changing before our very eyes . . . there are times when I have been prepared to accept the relative imprecision of a live performance as a means to ensuring its presence. . . I have always rejected the idea of notation being a lifeless tool for getting down sounds on paper. It's a much more complex and active relationship than that.

In the latter part he's referring to pitch indeterminacy in Transit.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 11:17:54 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline millionrainbows

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Re: Ferneyhough's Plough
« Reply #126 on: May 24, 2017, 10:24:28 AM »
Or maybe he's referring to the "unplayability factor" as an integral part of the composer's intent, which totally vindicates Cage. It's kinda like when you purposely do something wrong to a device, to see what effect you get.

Offline bwv 1080

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Re: Ferneyhough's Plough
« Reply #127 on: May 24, 2017, 11:32:37 AM »
Or maybe he's referring to the "unplayability factor" as an integral part of the composer's intent, which totally vindicates Cage. It's kinda like when you purposely do something wrong to a device, to see what effect you get.

there is nothing in BF's rhythms that is wrong - all the subdivisions add correctly.  You see things in his guitar piece Kurze Schatten II (of which I have played the 1st movement) like a harmonic held over a couple of measures  and then terminating to a rest within a 33:28 ->5:4 nested tuplet within a bar of 7/16.  The note wont sustain this long so it would not matter one way or another if the rhythm is played precisely, however it is playable as the start of the rest coincides with a harmonic struck on another string at the same point in time.  I do believe that BF's precise rhythmic notation gets a different performance than Cage's indeterminate writing.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Ferneyhough's Plough
« Reply #128 on: May 24, 2017, 11:52:46 AM »
The second part of the quote, about indeterminacy, I shouldn't have included it probably, was in a separate paragraph devoted to a part of Transit where the notation deliberately leaves the pitch to the performers to improvise.

Cage wrote "impossible" music to show that the impossible is not impossible.  It's not quite the same as BF.

(Re Cage, I've just noticed that there are no dynamic indications in the piano etudes but loads of them in the Freeman etudes, I don't understand why.) 
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 12:00:58 PM by Mandryka »
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Offline bwv 1080

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Re: Ferneyhough's get down
« Reply #129 on: May 27, 2017, 07:07:33 AM »
A little known piece from 1980

<a href="https://youtu.be/ScxXYjgf3PU" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://youtu.be/ScxXYjgf3PU</a>
« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 07:09:13 AM by bwv 1080 »
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Online North Star

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Re: Ferneyhough's get down
« Reply #130 on: May 27, 2017, 07:52:36 AM »
A little known piece from 1980

<a href="https://youtube.com/v/ScxXYjgf3PU" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://youtube.com/v/ScxXYjgf3PU</a>
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