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Star Wars music = classical music?

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Yes

Author Topic: Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?  (Read 122131 times)

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Offline paganinio

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Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?
« on: November 05, 2009, 09:43:55 PM »
I think smooth jazz counts as jazz, I might think post-rock counts as rock, but, Star Wars soundtrack, or any film soundtrack for that matter, counts as classical. I think a better term would be "contemporary orchestral compositions". But we really don't have an accurate term, other than "film score".



Offline drogulus

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Re: Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2009, 10:55:57 PM »


     If it can be turned into concert music it can be called classical. I suppose what it's taken for decides it. Williams is right in the middle of the classical tradition, his jazz background notwithstanding. So, what would disqualify a Star Wars Suite (there is one, right?)? In my opinion, nothing. Whether it could be considered exceptional classical music is another question. Certainly there is no reason to exclude Star Wars purely on quality. Besides, it's intrinsic to the modern understanding that bad as well as "challenging" art is not disqualified.

      :P
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Dana

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Re: Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2009, 11:39:06 PM »
Why don't we just call it all music and have done with it? :)

Offline listener

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Re: Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2009, 11:47:50 PM »
How might this differ from Prokofiev's Alexander Nevsky  and Lt. Kije scores or Walton's Henry V or Bliss's Things to Come ?
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Offline drogulus

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Re: Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2009, 12:44:18 AM »
How might this differ from Prokofiev's Alexander Nevsky  and Lt. Kije scores or Walton's Henry V or Bliss's Things to Come ?

    These composers built their reputations in classical music first. Williams, Previn, and Herrman had to fight for recognition. It's changed somewhat, though, as film is now seen as the great 20th century popular art form. And the increasing recognition of popular musical forms as legitimate vehicles for art helps.

Why don't we just call it all music and have done with it? :)

     If someone asks me if I like music I might say "I like some music". So, what kind do I like? It doesn't seem to me that "good" music is a kind in any useful sense. So, there will be categories. :)
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Offline david johnson

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Re: Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2009, 01:09:18 AM »
star wars film music was written to fit the flicks, but its popularity among classical audiences shows, among other things, that it can be really fun to hear and should appear in the concert hall.

i also think orchestras in the usa should perform a sousa march on each concert.  :)

dj

Offline drogulus

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Re: Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2009, 01:40:29 AM »
star wars film music was written to fit the flicks, but its popularity among classical audiences shows, among other things, that it can be really fun to hear and should appear in the concert hall.

i also think orchestras in the usa should perform a sousa march on each concert.  :)

dj

      Art that's fun should be in there with the nonfun kind.

      I also think John Williams is a terrific composer.
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2009, 02:18:39 AM »
Why don't we just call it all music and have done with it? :)

Yes. Why do we try to fit everything inside imaginary boxes? Many interesting and valuable things fall "between boxes".

I also think John Williams is a terrific composer.

Yes, a terrific composer of music for movies.  0:)
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Offline Bogey

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Re: Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2009, 03:13:04 AM »
A couple years back I asked the same question.  Ran for 9 pages:


http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1096.0.html
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Offline drogulus

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Re: Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2009, 03:23:36 AM »
Yes. Why do we try to fit everything inside imaginary boxes? Many interesting and valuable things fall "between boxes".

Yes, a terrific composer of music for movies.  0:)

     Why do we try to fit everything inside imaginary boxes?  ;D

     

   
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Offline jochanaan

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Re: Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2009, 09:42:57 AM »
Since some of us are dissatisfied with the whole concept of "classical versus pop," I'd certainly say that the Star Wars soundtracks count as "classical music" if anything does. :)

I would go further and say that movies are the operas of our time.  Now THERE's a discussion for another thread! ;D
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Re: Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2009, 09:55:49 AM »
Identifying movie soundtracks as a part of the classical tradition seems a bit like the possibility of the U.S. admitting Puerto Rico to the union — it would be a state, but it would be the poorest state in the nation. Soundtracks are good for the purpose they serve.

Offline Valentino

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Re: Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2009, 01:57:12 PM »
To me anything that's composed and written out for others to perform is "classical music".


But then again Gurn's "Classical corner" narrows the definition down a wee bit.
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Offline drogulus

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Re: Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2009, 02:47:00 PM »
Identifying movie soundtracks as a part of the classical tradition seems a bit like the possibility of the U.S. admitting Puerto Rico to the union — it would be a state, but it would be the poorest state in the nation. Soundtracks are good for the purpose they serve.

     Yes, they are good for that purpose, but not always in a way that makes them unsuited for other purposes, including presentation in the concert hall. Some film music does meet this standard. Part of the problem with deciding this issue is that film scores are quite variable in their adaptability for use outside the film medium. While some film music may be excellent only within its context, other scores can be adapted to thrive in the larger world.

     But even considering music only within its original context excellence can be recognized without the imputation of a lesser status, if only for the most worthy examples. Film music ought to be seen as an art form in its own right. We just have to get used to the idea, that's all.  :)
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Offline Est.1965

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Re: Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2009, 04:00:37 PM »
Since some of us are dissatisfied with the whole concept of "classical versus pop," I'd certainly say that the Star Wars soundtracks count as "classical music" if anything does. :)

I would go further and say that movies are the operas of our time.  Now THERE's a discussion for another thread! ;D

"...movies are the operas of our time..."
This is exactly how I feel about it. 
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Offline jwinter

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Re: Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2009, 07:39:11 PM »
Personally, I'm thinking this is a no-brainer.  How is film music different from music written to accompany a ballet?  Or to accompany some other sort of live visual performance (think Handel's music for the royal fireworks)?  You can argue about the relative quality of pieces, of course, but I can't see how Williams' Imperial March is fundamentally more or less "classical" than, say, the William Tell overture.
The man that hath no music in himself,
Nor is not moved with concord of sweet sounds,
Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils.
The motions of his spirit are dull as night,
And his affections dark as Erebus.
Let no such man be trusted.

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greg

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Re: Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2009, 07:57:57 PM »
Identifying movie soundtracks as a part of the classical tradition seems a bit like the possibility of the U.S. admitting Puerto Rico to the union — it would be a state, but it would be the poorest state in the nation. Soundtracks are good for the purpose they serve.
Nice!  :D

Offline 71 dB

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Re: Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2009, 12:54:17 AM »
I would go further and say that movies are the operas of our time.

Or operas were movies of pre-movie era. Operas and movies are audiovisual performances of stories. What shape and style these performances took/take is a matter of available resources, artistic choices of the makers and preferences of the audience.

Star Wars is often called a space opera. How convenient in this discussion!  ;)
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Offline Christo

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Re: Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2009, 01:12:38 AM »
Definitely not!
… music is not only an `entertainment’, nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Offline Frellie

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Re: Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2009, 02:09:15 AM »
Since some of us are dissatisfied with the whole concept of "classical versus pop," I'd certainly say that the Star Wars soundtracks count as "classical music" if anything does. :)

I would go further and say that movies are the operas of our time.  Now THERE's a discussion for another thread! ;D

Oh, don't go there!  :o

If anything, musicals would be the operas of our time. Provided, of course, that the actual operas of our time aren't themselves the operas of our time anymore...  ;)

Movies, then, are the digital equivalent of plays. So the Peer Gynt music by Grieg, for example, is the forerunner of the modern soundtrack, since it was actually performed during a play.

By the way, I thought 'classical music' is the expression Mr. John Doe uses whenever he hears strings. Apart from that, I've no idea what it means.

But if you mean 'art music', than I can't really see how Star Wars tunes could fit the description.



« Last Edit: November 07, 2009, 02:14:38 AM by Frellie »