Author Topic: Chopin Nocturnes  (Read 18596 times)

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Offline Dancing Divertimentian

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Re: Chopin Nocturnes
« Reply #60 on: February 05, 2014, 01:28:14 PM »
Any seconds on this?

Been a long-time fan of the nocturnes and could've sworn I've written about them many times on this board. No knowledge of this thread, though. Anyway, yeah I like Freire's nocturnes very much (along with Moravec's and Arrau's).


Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

kishnevi

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Re: Chopin Nocturnes
« Reply #61 on: February 05, 2014, 07:03:12 PM »
Any seconds on this? i liked his Liszt recital.

Definite thumbs up from me.  Only Nocturnes I like better* is Rubinstein.

*of the ones I've heard, which is of course merely a small portion of the universe of Nocturnes recordings

G. String

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Re: Chopin Nocturnes
« Reply #62 on: April 21, 2014, 01:14:43 AM »
Now that I'm visiting Rev's account, I can never get enough of listening to Chopin's nocturnes. One should own at least a dozen recordings. My favorites are Arrau, Freire, Magaloff, Moravec, Pires, Rev and Wild

Online Mandryka

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Re: Chopin Nocturnes
« Reply #63 on: April 21, 2014, 05:21:13 AM »
There's a discussion half way through this thread which made me think. It's about flow, and Holden says something like in good players of notcturnes there's a natural flow.

What made me pause for thought is this - when I listen to van Oort play Chopin, or Michel Boegner, it doesn't flow anything like the way it does when Cortot or Sofronitsky or Pletnev play. The nature of the instrument, percussive, less ressonant, makes for less seemless articulation and shorter phrases. I don't think their performances are any less satisfying for being more choppy, on the contrary, though I'm not a piano teacher. What makes Sofronitsky a great player of nocturnes, or Cortot,  isn't mainly about articulation, that would be absurd.

So I wonder about this flow, whether it's really just a consequence of tastes formed by overexposure to Steinways and other modern pianos. Rather than somethng essential to what Chopin was about. What he was trying to do when he wrote music seems quite an interesting question. Whatever the answer, he certainly wasn't writing for a modern grand.

I remember someone telling me that they're only nocturnes, you just put them on and let them wash over you and relax you. Well, I don't feel that.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 05:29:30 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Holden

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Re: Chopin Nocturnes
« Reply #64 on: April 21, 2014, 10:21:38 AM »
I feel that many pianists ruin the "flow" of the Nocturnes" by the excessive use of rubato. This tenet can be applied to any Chopin work but the Nocturnes exacerbate the issue. It's one of the reasons that I like Rubinstein and Moravec.
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Holden

G. String

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Re: Chopin Nocturnes
« Reply #65 on: April 24, 2014, 01:48:18 AM »
I feel that many pianists ruin the "flow" of the Nocturnes" by the excessive use of rubato. This tenet can be applied to any Chopin work but the Nocturnes exacerbate the issue.

I feel the same way, too. I can't stand soloists' "expressiveness" via sudden tempo changes or improvised rests in classical era style, too.

Offline Brian

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Re: Chopin Nocturnes
« Reply #66 on: September 02, 2014, 05:46:52 AM »
Has anybody heard Luiz de Moura Castro? MusicWeb is asking me to review his nocturne set.

Offline Todd

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Re: Chopin Nocturnes
« Reply #67 on: September 02, 2014, 05:54:07 AM »
Has anybody heard Luiz de Moura Castro? MusicWeb is asking me to review his nocturne set.



I've never seen the name before.  Jump at the chance to review it.  Worst case, it's mediocre.  Best case, it's a hidden gem.
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Offline Brian

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Re: Chopin Nocturnes
« Reply #68 on: September 02, 2014, 06:47:49 AM »
I've never seen the name before.  Jump at the chance to review it.  Worst case, it's mediocre.  Best case, it's a hidden gem.

Sent in my request for it. Moura Castro is apparently 70+ years old and has had a productive relationship with the record label Ensayo (Esteban Sanchez's), doing recitals of music from Brazil, Cuba, and Argentina. I might try one of those albums streaming and report on it in the listening thread.

Offline Todd

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Re: Chopin Nocturnes
« Reply #69 on: June 08, 2017, 04:54:08 AM »



[Cross-posted with WAYLTN thread.]

Second listen.  This was the last thing I listened to yesterday, too.  For the first listen, I did something I have not done in many years: I listened to all of the Nocturnes in one sitting.  Huangci's playing is outstanding throughout.  She tends not to dawdle, and in only a few instances does she play in a manner that might be considered to be pushing things.  The faster portions of 15/1 may be too hasty for some, and 37/2 sounds very Mazurka-y at the beginning, while the trills in 62/1 sound a bit excited.  In no case, though, is the overall effect ruined.  The set even includes a nice little encore of the Etude 25/7 with Tristan Cornut on cello.  Huangci's dexterity, clarity (or occasional purposeful lack thereof), dynamic shading, and tonal variety are superb.  Sonics for the 24/96 files are superb, and I suspect that 16/44.1 sounds essentially identical. 

I hope Huangci doesn't dawdle when it comes to making new recordings, and I hope she manages to make it here for a proper recital or concert soon.  She played in Spokane a couple months back.  Spokane!  Aside from being the birthplace of Thomas Hampson, what has that town done for classical music?  Worst case, I'll make the dreadful seven hour drive to hear her if she plays there again.
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Offline PerfectWagnerite

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Re: Chopin Nocturnes
« Reply #70 on: June 10, 2017, 04:15:41 AM »
Says here on Huangci's site;

Claire Huangci proves herself to be a vividly expressive interpreter of Chopin, the first since Artur Rubinstein to offer a complete cycle of the Nocturnes by Frédéric Chopin.

Is that right?

Online Mandryka

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Re: Chopin Nocturnes
« Reply #71 on: June 10, 2017, 04:35:35 AM »
Says here on Huangci's site;

Claire Huangci proves herself to be a vividly expressive interpreter of Chopin, the first since Artur Rubinstein to offer a complete cycle of the Nocturnes by Frédéric Chopin.

Is that right?

I don't think so. As far as I know Rubinstein didn't record the nocturne oublié.
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Offline Todd

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Re: Chopin Nocturnes
« Reply #72 on: June 10, 2017, 04:44:03 AM »
I don't think so. As far as I know Rubinstein didn't record the nocturne oublié.


I just scanned my entire collection and the only version I have of the Nocturne Oublié is Huangci's.  It does not appear in the Rubinstein big-box.
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Offline Jo498

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Re: Chopin Nocturnes
« Reply #73 on: June 10, 2017, 09:30:37 AM »
Pires' recording has two opus posthumum Nocturnes in c sharp minor and c minor. The c sharp minor is the "oubliée", isn't it?
Rubinstein did not record it, but I don't think Pires was the only one before Huangci who did.
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Offline Todd

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Re: Chopin Nocturnes
« Reply #74 on: June 10, 2017, 10:01:01 AM »
The C Sharp Minor Nocturne is usually labelled as Number 20 (and is in the Pires set), and is distinct from the Nocturne Oublie. 
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Online Mandryka

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Re: Chopin Nocturnes
« Reply #75 on: June 10, 2017, 12:03:11 PM »
It's disgraceful that on Huangci's recording they write Nocturne Oubliée!

(Mind you I had to check the gender of nocturne, and was surprised.)

What is this forgotten nocturne? Who wrote it? When was it discovered?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 12:04:51 PM by Mandryka »
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kishnevi

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Re: Chopin Nocturnes
« Reply #76 on: June 10, 2017, 12:24:09 PM »
It's disgraceful that on Huangci's recording they write Nocturne Oubliée!

(Mind you I had to check the gender of nocturne, and was surprised.)

What is this forgotten nocturne? Who wrote it? When was it discovered?

My question as well.

Rubinstein did not do the two posthumous Nocturnes (nor the posthumous waltzes, I believe). I think he justified that as honoring the composer's intentions.

Online Mandryka

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Re: Chopin Nocturnes
« Reply #77 on: June 10, 2017, 07:44:51 PM »
There's some discussion of it here

http://www.pianomajeur.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6277&start=0

I agree with the general feeling in that discussion that, whoever wrote it, it's a nice enough bit of music.

The score is here, I have no idea if this is the only score

https://henseltlibrary.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/chopin-nocturneoubliee.pdf

There's zero discussion of it in Huangci's liner notes, she's more interested in other types of things, poetry, and just passes it off, slips it in, as pukka Chopin without so much as a by your leave. I don't think she's a scholar-musician.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 08:00:56 PM by Mandryka »
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snyprrr

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Re: Chopin Nocturnes:VIRGIN EARS
« Reply #78 on: May 24, 2018, 06:58:10 PM »
It’s impossible to answer the question.

You can play these pieces in so many different ways.

I think it would be foolish to say that Weissenberg is better than Rubinstein, or that Rubinstein is better than Samson François, or that Samson François is better than Pollini.

These are all highly musical, well recorded, personal, intense performances. Despite their differences, none of them can be excluded for fundamental reasons.

They are incommensurables – and others would no doubt add others to the list.

All Weissenberg, Rubinstein, François, Pollini et al. have in common is a score to respond to – a score which profoundly underdetermines the performance.

My best advice is to listen to a selection of each of the above on youtube, see which tickles your fancy, and buy the CDs.

Alternatively say more about what you are looking for in terms of style – dreamy romantic, dramatic, objective, sentimental . . . and maybe someone can make some suggestions.

I'm coming fresh to the Nocturnes this very eve. I'm now using either 28/1, or the No.20posth.

1) I'm having trouble finding supernatural trilling in No.20 (I liked Wild)


I'm liking Moravec,...maybe Leonskaja,... Rev??anyone?,... Barenboim,No,..... Rubinstein- would like droolworthy sound,.... Fazil, eh?, not, or ya??,... Pires, nothing I could tell,.... Ashkenazy had a nice ambience,... Askenase's sound was a bit old,... I'm liking Wild, but there's no hall ambience, but he's good... Pletnev?... Ti Fong(?)CBS??... OhlssonEMI???,... Pollini I found 'unChopinesque',... Tzimon Barto????,... Oppitz....Weissenberg....pantpant....


I like an attenuating of the bang bang fortes , perhaps more of a 'feminine' approach, a Teldec/Philips type glorious piano sound,... I don't like the "pulling" rubato of some, but I do want -or, don't mind- a dreamstate quality (nicely proportioned dynamics). SOUND will have a lot to do with it (Nimbus prolly won't cut it,lol)

Is it too much to ask? :laugh:

snyprrr

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Re: Chopin Nocturnes
« Reply #79 on: May 25, 2018, 07:08:49 PM »
Now that I'm visiting Rev's account, I can never get enough of listening to Chopin's nocturnes. One should own at least a dozen recordings. My favorites are Arrau, Freire, Magaloff, Moravec, Pires, Rev and Wild

I want as mild as possible forte outbursts, as if one HAD to be a little quieter than usual,... I don't see why that should be a bad request. I'm listening to Wild's No.13 (c minor), and it's pretty extrovert. At least with Ashkenazy, the ambient hall absorbs any violence; with these closely mic'd versions, one has the 'dynamic range factor' at play, which, for me, is that "low playing=turn up; sudden outburst of loudness=panic jump, turn down; repeat" thing. You like Rev, eh?

Ricardo  Castro
Roger Woodward

two new ones I saw...

Li Yundi- NO!! I want to like it, it's got great sound, but he just sounds too... too...

Samson- mm... eh... kinda loud?...


IS THERE AN OUTBURST IN EEEVERY NOCTURNE???