Author Topic: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber  (Read 5044 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline André

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 6467
  • Location: Laval, QC
Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2017, 01:06:25 PM »
I can't find the Malgoire set on Amazon.ca or UK   :(


Amazon.com's shipping charges are outrageous, so s...w them !

But while researching, I found this instead:



3.44$ for 2 discs. My search was not in vain, then !  :)



Offline king ubu

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4066
  • sic transit gloria mundi
    • ubu's notizen
  • Location: Zurich, Switzerland
  • Currently Listening to:
    all music
Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2017, 10:53:11 PM »
I can't find the Malgoire set on Amazon.ca or UK   :(

I have ordered it last night ... also the Sepec and the Piérot   ;D
Es wollt ein meydlein grasen gan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Und do die roten röslein stan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Fick mich mehr, du hast dein ehr.
Kannstu nit, ich wills dich lern.
Fick mich, lieber Peter!

http://ubus-notizen.blogspot.ch/

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 11188
Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2019, 10:02:39 PM »
https://escholarship.org/content/qt9qc6h9vq/qt9qc6h9vq.pdf

This Ph.D thesis on violin sonatas has a chapter on the rosary sonatas starting at page 108. I thought it was the best thing I’ve ever read on the mystery sonatas.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 11188
Re: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber: violin sonatas
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2019, 05:47:27 AM »

Honorable mention goes to the Anne Schumann and Sebastian Knebel duo recording with violin and church organ only, which provides a rather different take and sound. 



I'm very much enjoying the restraint and intimacy of Knebel and Schumann, and the ambience of the recording,  thanks for mentioning it. Just as I've found with the Bach violin sonatas, an organ may well be a a contrapuntally interesting partner for the violinist. And if these sonatas had a church function (who knows?) it may well have been what Biber was thinking of. What's in the booklet? Do the performers say anything about what led them to this experiment, and what their journey was like? Is there an essay by a reputable academic?  I don't have access to it anywhere.



Clearly Walter Reiter knows how to play a violin.  He's thought hard about the expressive requirements of the music, and he can convey them. The sound is rather good, you can hear resonances for example. However I very negative reaction to it because I was all the time aware of how hard Reiter was working to make me feel. I felt like I was being coaxed like you might coax the dog from behind the sofa -- or, this is more like it, being hectored at, bullied almost. Got the word now -- manipulated. I don't mind if these guys manipulate me with their siren song, but I want them to take me so gently by the arm and lead me that I feel as though I'm going with them on the trip naturally, not being cajoled into the journey.

 It is clearly a very good bit of violin playing. And it is very much his show, the others are in a supporting role at best.

I may feel differently tomorrow.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 05:54:26 AM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Online North Star

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 17238
  • Location: Oulu, Finland
Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2019, 11:38:00 AM »
I'm very much enjoying the restraint and intimacy of Knebel and Schumann, and the ambience of the recording,  thanks for mentioning it. Just as I've found with the Bach violin sonatas, an organ may well be a a contrapuntally interesting partner for the violinist. And if these sonatas had a church function (who knows?) it may well have been what Biber was thinking of. What's in the booklet? Do the performers say anything about what led them to this experiment, and what their journey was like? Is there an essay by a reputable academic?  I don't have access to it anywhere.
Have you heard Rachel Podger's recording?  She has three musicians accompanying her, though the ensemble size & instruments vary between pieces, theorbo/archlute, harpsichord/organ, and cello/gamba.
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 11188
Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2019, 12:46:00 PM »
I have dipped into Podger without so far having any thoughts.

In that doctorate thesis I gave the link to, Lindsey Darlene Strand-Polyak says

Quote
We can surmise that the Rosary Sonatas would not have been played in a liturgical setting, because their inclusion of dance movements would have made them inappropriate for public church
performance.

This sacred cantata (BWV 122) seems to start with a little dance

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/-PKrAM0-PMg" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/-PKrAM0-PMg</a>

So what am I missing? Is the cantata not "liturgical"? Is it not a minuet at the start? Were the conventions in Biber's church different in this respect from Bach's? Or is Lindsey Darlene Strand-Polyak's argument a bad one?
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 12:48:43 PM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 11188
Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2019, 06:38:02 AM »


Can someone please tell me where the readings are taken from in this recording? All I can find on their website is

Quote from: someone at http://www.avie-records.com/releases/the-rosary-sonatas/
Avie’s version is unique for its inclusion of the spoken texts which would have been read during Rosary devotions in the 1670s, here eloquently delivered by well-known television and stage actor Timothy West.


When I type bits of the text into google, nothing comes up.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 06:44:41 AM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Online SonicMan46

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 12370
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2019, 10:54:05 AM »
At the moment, I'm going through my 12+ CDs of Biber's music - over the last couple of days, I listened to the 3 versions of the Mystery Sonatas in my collection and decided to keep all sets (posted the quote below yesterday in the 'listening thread') - for those interested, reviews are attached - will continue in the next post.  Dave :)

Quote
For some reason despite Biber's dates, he ended up in my 'Medieval-Renaissance Section' - starting out w/ the 3 recordings below:

Biber, Heinrich (1644-1704) - Mystery (Rosary) Sonatas w/ the three different violinists on the cover art - a short bio quoted below - I listened to the first disc of these double CD sets planning to 'cull out' one of these recordings, but all are excellent - the Lautenbacher performances are from the early 1960s but have been remastered beautifully - since she made these 'early revival' recordings, there have been an abundance of more and most seem to receive excellent reviews - I have more Biber, so looking forward to further listening - published reviews attached.  Dave :)

Quote
Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber (1644-1704) was a Bohemian-Austrian composer and violinist. Born in the Bohemian town of Wartenberg, Biber illegally left his Kremsier employer, Prince-Bishop Carl Liechtenstein-Kastelkorn, and settled in Salzburg. He remained there for the rest of his life, publishing much of his music but apparently seldom, if ever, giving concert tours. Biber was one of the most important composers for the violin in the history of the instrument. His technique allowed him to easily reach the 6th and 7th positions, employ multiple stops in intricate polyphonic passages, and explore the various possibilities of scordatura tuning. He also wrote one of the earliest known pieces for solo violin, the monumental passacaglia of the Mystery Sonatas. During Biber's lifetime, his music was known and imitated throughout Europe. In the late 18th century he was named the best violin composer of the 17th century by music historian Charles Burney. In the late 20th century Biber's music, especially the Mystery Sonatas, enjoyed a renaissance. Today, it is widely performed and recorded. (SOURCE)

   

Online SonicMan46

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 12370
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2019, 11:34:48 AM »
Well, this morning I listened to the only discs owned of Biber's vocal/sacred works, i.e. Missa Christi resurgentis written in 1673-74 and first performed in Salzburg and the Requiem - now onto my other discs which are violin & chamber ensemble music - not sure 'how much' overlap I own, but this WEBSITE has a listed classification using the letter 'C' and numbers ('C' either stands for Catalog or Eric Thomas Chafe).

The first recordings up are the bottom 2 pics, i.e. John Holloway on one disc and Manze/Romanesca on 2 discs; using the link, Manze performs "C 138–145, Sonatæ violino solo, 8 sonatas (Nuremberg, 1681)" plus adds "C 146, Sonata violino solo representativa (Representatio Avium), circa 1669", "C 106, Pastorella" and "Passacaglia for solo violin" from the Rosary Sonatas; while Holloway plays 4 of the same sonatas plus 2 'unpublished' ones - both performances are excellent and complementary.

Believe that I'll just post my Biber comments here correlating w/ the link given.  Dave :)

 

 

Offline André

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 6467
  • Location: Laval, QC
Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2019, 07:04:02 AM »
I like the Holloway disc. It is...different  :).

Online SonicMan46

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 12370
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2019, 08:13:45 AM »
I like the Holloway disc. It is...different  :).

Hi André - like both Holloway & Romanesca, the 2-disc latter set has all of the sonatas plus "C 146, Sonata violino solo representativa (Representatio Avium)" w/ the funny animal imitations - both go well together.  Dave :)

Online SonicMan46

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 12370
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2019, 08:33:35 AM »
Just to finish off my Biber collection:

C 78–89, Fidicinium sacro-profanum, 1–2vn, 2va, bc w/ David Plantier & Les Plaisirs du Parnasse
C 62–68, Harmonia articiciosa-ariosa: diversi mode accordata, 1–2vn, va, 2 viola d’amore, vlne, bc w/ Goebel & Musica Antique Köln (2-disc set)
C 114–137, Sonatæ, tam aris, quam aulis servientes, 2, 5–8 instruments w/ the Parley of Instruments, Roy Goodman & Peter Holman

Now - will check Amazon to see what else may be available - plenty of compositions remain in that link given previously - Dave :)

   

Offline San Antone

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 6569
  • Location: Tennessee
Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2019, 10:16:51 AM »
I've been listening to these recordings of the Rosenkranzsonaten.  There are three volumes.



Anne Schumann and Sebastian Knebel (HIP performances with Baroque violin)

Each CD was done in a different church with a different organ.  I think they are very good, although the acoustic gives the violin a distant sound.

Online TheGSMoeller

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 11361
  • Koala Greg
Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2019, 10:44:11 AM »
 

the Violin Sonata No. 3 is one of my favorite pieces of classical music! I cherish both of these performances.

Online SonicMan46

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 12370
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2019, 11:34:49 AM »
Hi San Antone & Greg - glad to see the Biber thread getting some activity - I decided to add the Goebel recording below -  "C 69–74, Mensa sonora, seu Musica instrumentalis, vn, 2va, vlne, bc (Salzburg, 1680)" (used copy for $5 from 'across the pond').  Dave :)


Offline André

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 6467
  • Location: Laval, QC
Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2019, 01:45:55 PM »
Hi Dave ! Expect a good ear cleaning from Goebel’s version  :D.

Online SonicMan46

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 12370
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2019, 02:19:12 PM »
Hi Dave ! Expect a good ear cleaning from Goebel’s version  :D.

André - LOL!  :laugh:  I thought this is Biber's version of 'Tafelmusik', as suggested by the attached review, BUT that is one of my favorite groups so will enjoy, plus Goebel breaks up the movements w/ "Any listeners who have been lulled into inattenti veness, will be jarred back to consciousness by the Sonata representativa, which Goebel has used to divide the two groups of Mensa sonora sonatas. The Sonata representativa is a most amusing, programmatic diversion." (from the attachment).  SO, I expect to hear some animal sounds on violin in the middle of this recording (love the cat!) - Dave :)

Offline San Antone

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 6569
  • Location: Tennessee
Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2019, 03:43:15 PM »
I've been listening to these recordings of the Rosenkranzsonaten.  There are three volumes.



Anne Schumann and Sebastian Knebel (HIP performances with Baroque violin)

Each CD was done in a different church with a different organ.  I think they are very good, although the acoustic gives the violin a distant sound.

After more extensive listening I cannot recommend these recordings.  The recorded sound of the violin is just too distant, and there appear to be significant intonation issues.  I am not sure if those are the result of the scordatura and/or issues with her playing, or something else.  But I will not listen to these recordings any more.

Online TheGSMoeller

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 11361
  • Koala Greg
Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
« Reply #38 on: March 19, 2019, 08:34:35 PM »
Just finished listening to the Violin Sonata 3 in F major performed by Gunar Letzbor and  Ars Antiqua Austria.
It's amazing. Gunar truly infuses this sonata with personal, and artistic touches, utilizing freedom to the tempi, dynamics and phrasing unlike any other performance I've heard before. It's a beautiful rendition, and with a perfectly balanced Ars Antiqua Austria to back Gunar up.
This is my first time hearing this performance, and it rivals the others I've heard.


Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 11188
Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
« Reply #39 on: March 19, 2019, 10:01:51 PM »
.  But I will not listen to these recordings any more.

You sound like Queen Elizabeth in Blackadder.


There’s just so much that’s revealing and unique about these searching performances, I think they are a very valuable edition in music which on record is, I think, often treated in a shallow way. Have you tried turning up the volume? That did the trick for me. As far as intonation is concerned, I hear scrunchy harmonies and surprising dissonances, I just assumed that it was by design, anyway I’m pretty tone deaf.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 10:24:01 PM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen