Author Topic: Dmitri's Dacha  (Read 171693 times)

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Offline vandermolen

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Re: Dmitri's Dacha
« Reply #1760 on: November 06, 2017, 02:56:31 AM »
Any fans of Mark Wigglesworth's outing of No. 11 with Netherlands Radio?  I remember thinking it was an interesting perspective and very well recorded.  If you are fan, how would you rate it to the greats?



How about Maxim Shostakovich's with Prague? 

To me a fantastic recording of No. 11 requires this:

1. Deep mystery in first movement
2. Extreme viciousness in second movement
3. Glorious and powerful low horns in third movement at the funeral section (Stowkowski)
4. Superb cor anglais solo in fourth movement before coda.
5. At the start of the coda of the fourth movement, very bold horns (again Stowkowski)
6. Terrifying coda
7. Really good timpani (clear, in tune, etc.)
8. Very high fidelity audio with very wide dynamic range (willing to compromise on this but my holy grail would fulfill all these)
Very interesting observations. I have the Wigglesworth doing Symphony 4 which I thought was excellent so I will look out for his No.11. I very much agree with your requirements for a great recording, especially that cor anglais solo just before the end, to which I would add that the bells in the coda should be audible. Having heard Vladimir Jurowski perform the symphony in London a few weeks ago I think that 'proper bells' rather than tubular bells should be used - the effect was quite extraordinary with the audience shocked into silence at the end. The performance may still be on line. Caetani's and Kitajenko's CD recordings both have great bell contributions at the end and I like Berglund's overall performance with the Bournemouth SO.
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Offline relm1

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Re: Dmitri's Dacha
« Reply #1761 on: November 06, 2017, 08:14:33 AM »
Very interesting observations. I have the Wigglesworth doing Symphony 4 which I thought was excellent so I will look out for his No.11. I very much agree with your requirements for a great recording, especially that cor anglais solo just before the end, to which I would add that the bells in the coda should be audible. Having heard Vladimir Jurowski perform the symphony in London a few weeks ago I think that 'proper bells' rather than tubular bells should be used - the effect was quite extraordinary with the audience shocked into silence at the end. The performance may still be on line. Caetani's and Kitajenko's CD recordings both have great bell contributions at the end and I like Berglund's overall performance with the Bournemouth SO.

Yes, I forgot the bells.  Absolutely need real bells and yes, the experience of a vicious coda with those lingering bells leaves audiences stunned speechless.  I heard this with MTT/SFO and we sat next to the percussion section which was a real treat.  My friend was blown away by the experience and could hardly talk after.  So yes, the perfect recording would capture that.  I didn't think very much of Vasily Petrenko's No. 11 (weak cor angalis, low horns...surprisingly since they were very fine in No. 5).  I will look for Jurowski's LPO recording.  I see it here https://www.bbc.co.uk/music/tracks/n48qp5 but the play button doesn't seem to work for me.  :(

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Dmitri's Dacha
« Reply #1762 on: November 06, 2017, 01:27:26 PM »
Yes, I forgot the bells.  Absolutely need real bells and yes, the experience of a vicious coda with those lingering bells leaves audiences stunned speechless.  I heard this with MTT/SFO and we sat next to the percussion section which was a real treat.  My friend was blown away by the experience and could hardly talk after.  So yes, the perfect recording would capture that.  I didn't think very much of Vasily Petrenko's No. 11 (weak cor angalis, low horns...surprisingly since they were very fine in No. 5).  I will look for Jurowski's LPO recording.  I see it here https://www.bbc.co.uk/music/tracks/n48qp5 but the play button doesn't seem to work for me.  :(

It doesn't work for me either - maybe no longer available. Coincidentally I tuned in to another excellent performance this afternoon on the Radio (BBC Radio 3 - Andrew Litton - live concert). Very fast coda but audience stunned into silence by those bells at the end.
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Offline relm1

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Re: Dmitri's Dacha
« Reply #1763 on: November 10, 2017, 04:47:30 PM »
I have been listening to the new Naxos release of the complete score to The Gadfly and finding so much of the music very beautiful.  I was wondering have any of you actually seen the film?  I found it online but it doesn't have translation but it might be worth watching just to hear the music in its original context.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxOToo6J8jA

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Dmitri's Dacha
« Reply #1764 on: November 11, 2017, 02:08:19 AM »
I have been listening to the new Naxos release of the complete score to The Gadfly and finding so much of the music very beautiful.  I was wondering have any of you actually seen the film?  I found it online but it doesn't have translation but it might be worth watching just to hear the music in its original context.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxOToo6J8jA

The sample of that new CD on the Naxos website sounds very good.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Dmitri's Dacha
« Reply #1765 on: November 13, 2017, 01:07:25 PM »
Any fans of Mark Wigglesworth's outing of No. 11 with Netherlands Radio?  I remember thinking it was an interesting perspective and very well recorded.  If you are fan, how would you rate it to the greats?



How about Maxim Shostakovich's with Prague? 

To me a fantastic recording of No. 11 requires this:

1. Deep mystery in first movement
2. Extreme viciousness in second movement
3. Glorious and powerful low horns in third movement at the funeral section (Stowkowski)
4. Superb cor anglais solo in fourth movement before coda.
5. At the start of the coda of the fourth movement, very bold horns (again Stowkowski)
6. Terrifying coda
7. Really good timpani (clear, in tune, etc.)
8. Very high fidelity audio with very wide dynamic range (willing to compromise on this but my holy grail would fulfill all these)
I find that I do own this excellent performance  ::). It was very highly rated on the BBC Building a Library, Record Review on Saturday. Also positive mentions of Haitink (John, MI will be pleased  8)), Mravinsky and Rostropovich's LSO account although it is rather drawn out. But the top three were Wigglesworth, Kreizberg and Bychov (whom, I gather are half-brothers). The Bychov Berlin recording on Philips was the No.1 choice. They played the coda from that performance although I thought that the bells sounded a bit puny compared to what I have heard recently. The Kreizberg CD is very expensive. I still think very highly of the Berglund performance. If you can access the programme it is a great overview of the symphony.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline relm1

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Re: Dmitri's Dacha
« Reply #1766 on: November 13, 2017, 05:05:06 PM »
I find that I do own this excellent performance  ::). It was very highly rated on the BBC Building a Library, Record Review on Saturday. Also positive mentions of Haitink (John, MI will be pleased  8)), Mravinsky and Rostropovich's LSO account although it is rather drawn out. But the top three were Wigglesworth, Kreizberg and Bychov (whom, I gather are half-brothers). The Bychov Berlin recording on Philips was the No.1 choice. They played the coda from that performance although I thought that the bells sounded a bit puny compared to what I have heard recently. The Kreizberg CD is very expensive. I still think very highly of the Berglund performance. If you can access the programme it is a great overview of the symphony.

Do you have a link?  The link I found http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/shostakovich/library.shtml says Rostropovich is there first choice:

Shostakovich: Symphony No. 11, 'The Year 1905'

First Choice:
Washington National Symphony Orchestra
ROSTROPOVICH, Mstislav (conductor)
TELDEC 0630-17046-2 (12-CD)
MID-PRICE
Coupled with: Complete symphonies

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Dmitri's Dacha
« Reply #1767 on: November 14, 2017, 02:16:46 AM »
Do you have a link?  The link I found http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/shostakovich/library.shtml says Rostropovich is there first choice:

Shostakovich: Symphony No. 11, 'The Year 1905'

First Choice:
Washington National Symphony Orchestra
ROSTROPOVICH, Mstislav (conductor)
TELDEC 0630-17046-2 (12-CD)
MID-PRICE
Coupled with: Complete symphonies

I'm not sure you can access it outside of the UK but I hope so. I couldn't access it on my iPad but was able to do so on my laptop:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09dwpt2

That may not work but if you type in 'BBC Radio 3 Record Review' and look for the most recent version (last Saturday) you should hopefully find it.

The link that you found must have been a previous review of the recordings. This time they spoke highly of Rostropovich's LSO account but said that it was too drawn out. They said, rightly I think, that he was not a great or even necessarily good conductor but that he could achieve great results if the music meant a lot to him personally - as in the case of Shostakovich for example.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 02:22:51 AM by vandermolen »
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Offline ørfeo

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Re: Dmitri's Dacha
« Reply #1768 on: November 14, 2017, 04:50:32 AM »
Drat. No love for Petrenko?

Mind you, that particular symphony (the first he recorded) is widely regarded to have sound/balance problems. Not insurmountable, but it's tricky to get a volume that works.
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Offline San Antonio

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Re: Dmitri's Dacha
« Reply #1769 on: November 14, 2017, 05:23:40 AM »
Just listened to The Preludes & Fugues (Melnikov); one of my favorite works by Shostakovich, and I enjoyed Melnikov's performance.  I had earlier listened to Hindemith's Ludus Tonalis (Berezovsky).  These two works of the 20th century were obviously inspired by the WTC - I wonder what other works might also fit that description?

Offline North Star

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Re: Dmitri's Dacha
« Reply #1770 on: November 14, 2017, 05:31:13 AM »
Just listened to The Preludes & Fugues (Melnikov); one of my favorite works by Shostakovich, and I enjoyed Melnikov's performance.  I had earlier listened to Hindemith's Ludus Tonalis (Berezovsky).  These two works of the 20th century were obviously inspired by the WTC - I wonder what other works might also fit that description?

Les Guitares bien tempérées, Op. 199, for two guitars (1962) by Castelnuovo-Tedesco - a set of preludes & fugues in each key.

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Offline San Antonio

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Re: Dmitri's Dacha
« Reply #1771 on: November 14, 2017, 05:32:20 AM »
Les Guitares bien tempérées, Op. 199, for two guitars (1962) by Castelnuovo-Tedesco - a set of preludes & fugues in each key.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/VSeyHg6iPws" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/VSeyHg6iPws</a>

Thanks for this suggestion; it will be on my listening plans today.

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Dmitri's Dacha
« Reply #1772 on: November 14, 2017, 07:01:26 AM »
Drat. No love for Petrenko?

Mind you, that particular symphony (the first he recorded) is widely regarded to have sound/balance problems. Not insurmountable, but it's tricky to get a volume that works.

I’m not sure what exactly it is about the Petrenko cycle overall that I don’t like, but there’s a certain kind of spirit missing in his performances that I hear in Haitink and Rozhdestvensky that I don’t hear in Petrenko. I do agree with you, however, that the 11th is a difficult symphony to pull off well and that’s not even discussing the challenges of the audio engineer. :)
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Offline vandermolen

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Re: Dmitri's Dacha
« Reply #1773 on: November 14, 2017, 12:25:52 PM »
Drat. No love for Petrenko?

Mind you, that particular symphony (the first he recorded) is widely regarded to have sound/balance problems. Not insurmountable, but it's tricky to get a volume that works.
Wasn't mentioned as far as I recall but nor were many other fine versions, including ones by Kondrashin, Lazarev, Pritchard, Caetani and Cluytens.
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Dmitri's Dacha
« Reply #1774 on: November 14, 2017, 01:56:13 PM »
I haven't heard Petrenko in the Eleventh. (Just since it was asked 8) )
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Offline Jeffrey Smith

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Re: Dmitri's Dacha
« Reply #1775 on: November 14, 2017, 07:51:36 PM »
I'm not sure you can access it outside of the UK but I hope so. I couldn't access it on my iPad but was able to do so on my laptop:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09dwpt2

That may not work but if you type in 'BBC Radio 3 Record Review' and look for the most recent version (last Saturday) you should hopefully find it.

The link that you found must have been a previous review of the recordings. This time they spoke highly of Rostropovich's LSO account but said that it was too drawn out. They said, rightly I think, that he was not a great or even necessarily good conductor but that he could achieve great results if the music meant a lot to him personally - as in the case of Shostakovich for example.

I think that Slava/LSO performance is the best 11th I have ever heard.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Dmitri's Dacha
« Reply #1776 on: November 14, 2017, 10:34:43 PM »
I think that Slava/LSO performance is the best 11th I have ever heard.
In pleased to hear that Jeffrey as I've just been asked to write the notes for a forthcoming CD release of that performance!
On the recent record review they said that it was special but also considerably longer than any other version. Rostropovich was close to Shostakovich which no doubt informed his performance. There's a great story of Shostakovich phoning Rostropovich up and saying 'come over immediately' which Rostropovich did. On arrival Shosrakovich said 'sit down over there'. After a while Shostakovich told Rostropovich that he could leave. He didn't say anything during Rostropovich's 'visit' but just wanted his physical company. I find it a very endearing story.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 10:39:53 PM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline relm1

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Re: Dmitri's Dacha
« Reply #1777 on: November 15, 2017, 05:19:54 PM »
I think Maxim Shostakovich/LSO No. 5 is very good.  It has one of the best Largo movements I have ever heard.   All of it very well performed and recorded.  I think it is a wonderful recording that doesn't get enough attention.  I am actually a fan of all of his Collins/LSO recordings.  The Prague recordings aren't bad, just not as great an orchestra.

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Re: Dmitri's Dacha
« Reply #1778 on: November 15, 2017, 05:22:09 PM »
I think Maxim Shostakovich/LSO No. 5 is very good.  It has one of the best Largo movements I have ever heard.   All of it very well performed and recorded.  I think it is a wonderful recording that doesn't get enough attention.  I am actually a fan of all of his Collins/LSO recordings.  The Prague recordings aren't bad, just not as great an orchestra.

Yes, Maxim’s recordings on Collins are quite good indeed. I think our dear Dr. Henning is a fan of the Maxim Prague cycle. I haven’t heard enough of it myself to comment on it.
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Dmitri's Dacha
« Reply #1779 on: November 16, 2017, 05:55:17 AM »
The Prague recordings aren't bad, just not as great an orchestra.

Aye, though I think them of more merit than not bad  0:)
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