Author Topic: Chez Stravinsky  (Read 109770 times)

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Offline edward

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2007, 11:06:03 AM »
Now if only he'd (pace Wodehouse) done an orchestral version of Way Down the soigné river....
"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
 -- Aaron Copland, The Pleasures of Music

karlhenning

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2007, 11:23:24 AM »
I can't either think that adjective without chuckling at remembering Wodehouse  :D

karlhenning

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2007, 11:23:55 AM »
Lethe, do you have The Big Box, or did I but dream it?   8)

Offline Lethevich

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #43 on: October 26, 2007, 11:26:33 AM »
Lethe, do you have The Big Box, or did I but dream it?   8)

Yep, as-per me, I have yet to listen to most of it - the stand-out discovery so far has been the violin concerto.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

karlhenning

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2007, 11:35:47 AM »
How is progress on The Box, LetheIsaac Stern playing the Violin Concerto is a fine document of the piece!

Offline Lethevich

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2007, 11:45:22 AM »
How is progress on The Box, LetheIsaac Stern playing the Violin Concerto is a fine document of the piece!

The biggest discoveries so far are: Ebony Concerto, Canticum Sacrum and Threni (that one in particular was unexpectedly substantial/large). Ones I was aware were popular but had barely heard until now: Octet, Symphony of Psalms, Requiem Canticles.

I was surprised at how little chamber music was on here - evidence that he didn't write much?
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

karlhenning

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #46 on: November 19, 2007, 12:20:59 PM »
The biggest discoveries so far are: Ebony Concerto, Canticum Sacrum and Threni (that one in particular was unexpectedly substantial/large). Ones I was aware were popular but had barely heard until now: Octet, Symphony of Psalms, Requiem Canticles.

I was very pleasantly surprised with how much I like this recording of the Ebony Concerto, a work which had pretty much eluded me ere now.

Quote from: Lethe
I was surprised at how little chamber music was on here - evidence that he didn't write much?

I suppose not, comparatively speaking.  Stravinsky's career certainly resulted in a wealth of music for large forces.  Some of the ballets, though (L'histoire du soldat, Bayka/Renard) are scored essentially for chamber groups.

Egebedieff

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #47 on: December 13, 2007, 07:24:43 PM »
How is progress on The Box, LetheIsaac Stern playing the Violin Concerto is a fine document of the piece!

Stravinsky sure didn't think so. Stravinsky wanted Eudice Shapiro, but Stern was the Columbia star violinist.




karlhenning

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #48 on: December 14, 2007, 06:08:18 AM »
Stravinsky sure didn't think so. Stravinsky wanted Eudice Shapiro, but Stern was the Columbia star violinist.

That doesn't follow.  This means that Stravinsky wanted some other performer, all right;  it does not mean that the recording with Stern is at all otherwise than a fine document of the piece.

Egebedieff

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #49 on: December 14, 2007, 01:14:03 PM »
That doesn't follow.  This means that Stravinsky wanted some other performer, all right;  it does not mean that the recording with Stern is at all otherwise than a fine document of the piece.

My comment that he preferred Shapiro wasn't intended as a statement of proof that the IS/IS recording "is at all otherwise than a fine document of the piece" (whatever that sort of pronouncement is intended to mean).

It was preceded by a statement of the fact that Stravinsky didn't think so, which is fairly frequently documented (oddly, not in the liner notes). A quick glance turns up these references.

See Walsh Vol II page 517,
or Charles Joseph's "Stravinsky Inside Out" page 216

I remember someone recounting a conversation in the car in which Stravinsky,  lamenting how badly things went w/ Stern, says something along the lines of "and to think Eudice Shapiro is here in Los Angeles."

It's okay if you like that recording, but I think we can discern Stravinsky's feelings about ir when he complains that Stern had "hardly done me the respect of learning it ..."

Regarding recordings as documents: Stravinsky spoke of his recordings as "documents"  early on, but felt less and less so of the '60s recordings, esp. over such things as the Stern and Entremont collaborations, among other things.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2007, 01:54:15 PM by ' »

karlhenning

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #50 on: December 14, 2007, 01:32:53 PM »
Thanks for the expansion.  Entremont was certainly a peculiar pairing with the music, too.

karlhenning

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #51 on: December 16, 2007, 06:28:58 AM »
Well, more than a few neighbors complain (not all of them graciously) about my brief posts (and not that your statement was such a complaint, of course).  But my circumstances of browsing/keeping up with the forum (which runs to the chatty side, even if I did not participate at all) are generally such, that most of the time my choice is, post a brief message, or don't participate.  And I forego the latter option.  If that brings grief to some, I truly regret it.  But, hard cheddar.

To expand on my own remark, apostrophe:  Much of the Big Stravinsky Box are excellent renditions of much of the master's oeuvre.  In many cases, next to the only recordings of pieces which deserve better than next-to-only-recording status (gag me with a hundred complete-Beethoven-symphony sets).  Some of them are a bit dodgy (I must admit to puzzled disappointment with the performance of Agon, which has much rattier moments to it, than any recording with the musicians of the Cleveland Orchestra has any right to).  For the Violin Concerto, largely I do prefer Wolfgang Schneiderhan's playing with the Berliner Philharmoniker and Karel Ančerl, perhaps;  even there, though, I find the Stravinsky document of unique interest, even where there is some apparently near-fatal compromise.  Like the failure to include the repeat in the first of the Movements for piano and orchestra.

Offline BachQ

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #52 on: December 16, 2007, 06:46:39 AM »
Thanks for the expansion.  Entremont was certainly a peculiar pairing with the music, too.

Karl, you should learn to address posters by name ........

Egebedieff

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #53 on: December 16, 2007, 10:00:21 AM »
(I must admit to puzzled disappointment with the performance of Agon, which has much rattier moments to it, than any recording with the musicians of the Cleveland Orchestra has any right to). 

I may agree, and I would like to hear the Cleveland Orch perform it. And perhaps there are rattier moments than one should expect from the Los Angeles Festival Sym Orch (essentially the same crowd of west coast Columbia Symphony/LA Phil players IS recorded with in LA). I am still rather fond of that recording, because it is the one I bonded with -- perhaps a little like what happens when you learn to play a piece wrong. I heard a recording BBC broadcast Strav. conducted shortly after the recording, hoping for a better performance, but it has even more of the same problems of the Columbia rec. 

I think the Cleveland Orch Strav recordings are among the best-played of the Columbias, although there are some surprising gaffes, esp. the oboe disappearing for a measure or two in Card Party. (Mysteriously repaired on the CD set)

For the Violin Concerto, largely I do prefer Wolfgang Schneiderhan's playing with the Berliner Philharmoniker and Karel Ančerl, perhaps;  even there, though, I find the Stravinsky document of unique interest, even where there is some apparently near-fatal compromise.  Like the failure to include the repeat in the first of the Movements for piano and orchestra.

That is a particular curiosity, since the repeat was there on the lp release, albeit a copy/paste (coincidentally worth pointing out that McClure's other charge, Glenn Gould, was in favor of just using the same performance twice for repeats). McClure missed this on the CD remastering. I expect there are similar copy/paste repeats given the budget McClure was working with.

karlhenning

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #54 on: December 16, 2007, 12:16:40 PM »
An optimist might say "Single Beginning-Quote" . . . .

Mark G. Simon

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #55 on: December 25, 2007, 11:12:18 AM »
Santa was very good to me today. He brought me my own copy of The Stravinsky Box. All 22 CDs. Just about the complete works. Life is good.

karlhenning

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #56 on: December 25, 2007, 06:33:14 PM »
Splendid, Mark!

uffeviking

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #57 on: December 25, 2007, 08:04:40 PM »
Life is good here too because I bought the very same collection as a Winter Solstice present for Lis! - Aren't those presents you buy for yourself always the best ones?  ;)

I skimmed through those 22 discs and am surprised at the amount of songs Stravinsky composed; never heard any of them!

karlhenning

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #58 on: December 26, 2007, 05:43:03 AM »
Have fun with "The Owl and the Pussycat," Lis!

uffeviking

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #59 on: December 26, 2007, 10:01:51 AM »
Have fun with "The Owl and the Pussycat," Lis!

I did have fun, Karl! It's with Robert Kraft and she sings in English, I can understand almost every word.

The one I am very happy about is Oedipus. I have the video with Jessye Norman and Philip Langridge conducted by Seiji Ozawa. Those two soloists and the production is fabulous, but all is ruined by casting the Japanese female as speaker. My apologies to any native Japanese speaker, but it's a violent sounding language and this woman comes on like one of those yappy terriers, ruining the entire performance. Now I have a wonderful Oedipus to enjoy, pleasant voices all the way around!  :)

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