Author Topic: French Baroque Music  (Read 183161 times)

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Offline FideLeo

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Re: French Baroque Music
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2007, 11:17:37 PM »
Thank you Masolino for the recommendation! :)
I do hope Hunt's and Padmore's French is OK? (I must confess to some bias against anglophone singers in this respect... :-\)


Lilas, could you mention some performers/recordings for those?

Q

I am no judge in French pronunciation myself (my French is awful as awful can be) but William Christie obviously thought both singers up to their task.  Christie himself speaks the language almost like a native, as his successful career as an operatic conductor in France suggests; the French are notoriously intolerant of people who dare to "disgrace" their language with any degree of mangling.

I am not Lilas, but I do want to recommend Minkowski's recording of Charpentier Te Deum (Archiv): he drives the music to such heights all other versions (eg. William Christie's) seem underpowered in comparison.  Another famous treat from Charpentier is his Leçons de Ténèbres: I have several incomplete collections of these and the most enduring (to my listening) of all is the Opus 111 selection disc conducted by Martin Gester (OPS55-9119).  The names of Veronique Gens and Noemi Rime should raise some expectations and those are amply fulfilled in my case.  What ravishingly beautiful singing! 

Goldberg blurb
« Last Edit: June 23, 2007, 11:39:24 PM by masolino »
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Offline Que

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Re: French Baroque Music
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2007, 11:40:43 PM »
I am no judge in French pronunciation myself (my French is awful as awful can be) but William Christie obviously thought both singers up to their task.  Christie himself speaks the language almost like a native, as his successful career as an operatic conductor in France suggests; the French are notoriously intolerant of people who dare to "disgrace" their language with any degree of mangling.
My French is absolutely awful too! ;D

Quote
I am not Lilas, but I do want to recommend Minkowski's recording of Charpentier Te Deum (Archiv): he drives the music to such heights all other versions (eg. William Christie's) seem underpowered in comparison.

Have it and totally agree - Minkowksi's Te Deum swings.

Quote
Another famous treat from Charpentier is his Leçons de Ténèbres: I have several incomplete collections of these and the most enduring (to my listening) of all is the Opus 111 selection disc conducted by Martin Gester (10-003).  The names of Veronique Gens and Noemi Rime should raise some expectations and those are amply fulfilled in my case.  What ravishingly beautiful singing!
Thanks, it's now on the list. :)

I saw this Boismortier in a bargain - do I need it?? 8)



Q
À chacun son goût.

Offline FideLeo

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Re: French Baroque Music
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2007, 11:53:04 PM »

I saw this Boismortier in a bargain - do I need it?? 8)



Q

If you don't have any Boismortier then why not?  It is positively beautiful if the not most inspired music that I have heard from this period.  Niquet also made a couple of Boismortier recordings for Naxos - I am happy to report that none is a dud. 

ps. A small snippet from the Gester Charpentier rec here: Incipit...

« Last Edit: June 23, 2007, 11:55:04 PM by masolino »
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Offline FideLeo

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Re: French Baroque Music
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2007, 12:18:35 AM »
A treat! And I'm very fond of recorders... :)

Q

This one is quite a bit longer with both dessus voices coming into play  :)  but no recorders until towards the end!
manum suam misit hostis...
« Last Edit: June 24, 2007, 01:13:57 AM by masolino »
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Lilas Pastia

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Re: French Baroque Music
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2007, 09:06:07 AM »
Indeed the Minkowski Te Deum really swings! This is a relatively new approach to that familiar music, though. It's been in the recorded repertoire for decades and a grander, statelier approach was the norm until Minkowski broke the mold. It's a work of stature and it thrives on many interpretive approaches.

Michel Corrette was a composer whose claim to fame in his own time was mostly as a pedagogue. He wrote many "méthodes" for various instruments. Upon reading some articles on the net it became clear there's quite a rift between anglo and franco authors on his credentials as a composer. The former focus on his numerous borrowings from popular tunes of the day and the many pastiches he made (for example, his 25 Concertos comiques). The latter properly see him as having understood and distilled the essence of the late French baroque style. Just compare the two wikipedia articles (English and French) and the difference is obvious. BTW the title "Concertos comiques" have nothing to do with their being funny, they refer to the fact that they were composed to be played during entr'actes at the Opéra Comique...

Anyhow, for the purpose of this thread, which I see as an introduction to one of the major byways of classical music, Corrette is just ideal. Note also that he lived to a ripe old age, and his production covers late Baroque and early Classical (roughly 1730-1790).

This link http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Namedrill?&name_id=2487&name_role=1   provides many sub links to individual discs. Apart from the Concertos comiques, his superb set of bass instrument sonatas (viol, gamba, bassoon, cello, solo, in pair or in trio) called Les Délices de la solitude presents a more serious, melancholy aspect that is a faithful reflection of a major current within the French baroque (also exemplified by the works of Marin Marais or his mentor Le Sieur de Sainte-Colombe. The superb Corneau film Tous les matins du monde with Depardieu père et fils portrays their life and deep love of music).

Corrette also used his talents to bring the French Noels tradition to larger audiences. Many composers wrote Noels for the organ, where were traditionally played in church on the organ (Nicolas de Grigny is the outstanding example). Corrette adapted them for instruments and stringed them in delightful suites. Those allergic to the pipe instrument can still sample the genre here.

I would recommend the following discs as excellent introductions to Corrette's music:

 
« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 12:28:11 PM by Que »

Offline The new erato

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Re: French Baroque Music
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2007, 09:11:47 AM »
BTW I find the composer presentation in the Directory of composers on this page

http://www.newolde.com/

quite useful.

Lilas Pastia

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Re: French Baroque Music
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2007, 09:15:31 AM »
Boismortier, Clérambault: cantatas. This is a real delight
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6934288&style=classical

Corrette's most famous Concerto comique completes the disc.

Offline Bunny

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Re: French Baroque Music
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2007, 08:17:12 PM »
I just realised that we have no thread to discuss recordings of, for instance, F. Couperin's Leçons de Ténèbres! :)

So, this new thread on all recordings of the music of French baroque composers.

Please post your favourite recordings, queries, discussions, etc!

Q

Sorry to be so late to the discussion!

For the Leçons, I love Rousset's recording with Sandrine Piau and Veronique Gens.



I also have managed to get William Christie's recording of Charpentier's Te Deum and Grand Office des Morts



Alas, I've not enough experience with the baroque operas to start posting intelligently although I did pick up René Jacob's recording of Gluck's Orfeo et Eurydice, which was excellent to my ears.



And I adore Veronique Gens album Tragedienne of great arias, but which I suspect falls into the category of French Baroque Opera-Lite


I am looking forward to a lot of listening and new experiences. :)
« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 12:29:38 PM by Que »

Offline FideLeo

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Re: French Baroque Music
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2007, 12:04:35 AM »


Le Roi Danse [Original Motion Picture Soundtrack] [Hybrid SACD]

Compositeur: Robert Cambert, Jacques Cordier, Michel Lambert, Jean-Baptiste Lully
Chef d'orchestre: Reinhard Goebel
Orchestre: Musica Antiqua Köln

It's a bit like Goebel's early recording of Couperin Les nations: French or not, it is intensely satisfying as a musical performance.

EDIT.  To Joan's reference above, I have not seen the film, although "over the top" seems to be quite consistent with what I have heard about it.   However I consider even Tous les matins du monde a bit over-the-top.  How do you say "your mileage may vary" in French?  ;) ;D
« Last Edit: June 25, 2007, 03:49:50 PM by masolino »
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Offline Bunny

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Re: French Baroque Music
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2007, 11:56:40 AM »
If we are doing soundtracks, then you have to consider Tous les Matins du Monde. 




And while we are visiting Versailles, we may as well listen to Skip Sempé's excellent recording "Versailles - L'Île Enchantée," and Marc Minkowski's Symphonie Imaginaire. :)


« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 11:18:50 AM by Que »

Offline Bunny

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Re: French Baroque Music
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2007, 09:17:50 PM »
Listening to the (French baroque) musical tragedies in their entireties can be a daunting experience, the genre itself being one of extreme formality and discursiveness (it is recitation-based).  So even many "complete" recordings are cut in places to save listeners from death from boredom.  Given a great voice and perfect diction selection albums like this one will not disappoint even if drama will inevitably get underplayed when all context is removed.  Gens's voice has matured over the years - hearing her more fresh-voiced in early recordings such as Minkowski's version of Marais Alcyone (recorded 1990) makes one realise that recordings are a bit like photographs...

After years of studying history, literature, and art, I had to admit that I really didn't get what the French Baroque was all about until I saw Rosellini's film, La Prise de Pouvoir par Louis XIV.  It's a great film, and something that I would recommend to anyone interested in this period.


Offline FideLeo

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Re: French Baroque Music
« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2007, 01:25:33 AM »
After years of studying history, literature, and art, I had to admit that I really didn't get what the French Baroque was all about until I saw Rosellini's film, La Prise de Pouvoir par Louis XIV.  It's a great film, and something that I would recommend to anyone interested in this period.



Dear Bunny

Thanks for the suggestion - the Rosselini film seems interesting and I will check it out when it is re-released for DVD!  :)
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Offline Que

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Re: French Baroque Music
« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2007, 08:57:28 PM »
Can anyone comment on the issue ictured below with Goebel? Not a French ensemble but the samples sound good and idiomatic. Looks like interesting programming too.


Marche de triomphe, for instruments, H. 547
Messe pour plusieurs instruments au lieu des orgues, for orchestra, H. 513
Fanfare à 2 trompettes, H. deest
Offerte pour l'orgue, for 2 flutes, 2 oboes, strings & continuo, H. 514
Pour un reposoir, for strings, H. 508
Ouverture poue l'église, for strings & continuo, H. 524
Symphonies pour un reposoir, for strings & continuo, H. 515
Offerte non encore exécutée, for 2 flutes, 2 oboes, strings & bassoon, H. 522
Concert pour quatre parties des violes, for strings, H. 545
Pour un reposoir, for 3 flutes, strings & continuo, H. 523
Marche de triomphe, for instruments, H. 547


Comes with a bonus CD with Bach, Händel, Vivaldi and Heinichen!

Q
« Last Edit: January 03, 2008, 11:23:29 AM by Que »
À chacun son goût.

Offline Bunny

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Re: French Baroque Music
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2007, 09:57:00 PM »
I have that also, and enjoy it very much. :)

If it's of any help, it received the 10/10 from ClassicsToday (and not Hurwitz). 

Offline FideLeo

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Re: French Baroque Music
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2007, 02:06:01 AM »

Can anyone comment on the issue pictured below with Goebel? Not a French ensemble but the samples sound good and idiomatic. Looks like interesting programming too.


Marche de triomphe, for instruments, H. 547
Messe pour plusieurs instruments au lieu des orgues, for orchestra, H. 513
Fanfare à 2 trompettes, H. deest
Offerte pour l'orgue, for 2 flutes, 2 oboes, strings & continuo, H. 514
Pour un reposoir, for strings, H. 508
Ouverture poue l'église, for strings & continuo, H. 524
Symphonies pour un reposoir, for strings & continuo, H. 515
Offerte non encore exécutée, for 2 flutes, 2 oboes, strings & bassoon, H. 522
Concert pour quatre parties des violes, for strings, H. 545
Pour un reposoir, for 3 flutes, strings & continuo, H. 523
Marche de triomphe, for instruments, H. 547


Comes with a bonus CD with Bach, Händel, Vivaldi and Heinichen!

Q

Charpentier never wrote any independent instrumental work, so all the pieces
included in this disc are in a sense "extracts" from larger vocal works - remember
the term ritornello from earlier discussion on Vivaldi?  :)  So while the music
itself is beautiful, do not expect to hear the same level of coherence and continuity
of a suite by Couperin or Marais or Rebel.  In this aspect, it's quite like the "Roi danse"
OST recording he did earlier from the oevure of Lully (who similarly never wrote
purely instrumental music), and there are actully more vocal selections in the Lully
recordings.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2007, 02:24:52 AM by masolino »
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Offline Bunny

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Re: French Baroque Music
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2007, 06:23:40 AM »
When I was a young child, a beautiful 78 rpm record (it was a translucent dark red color) was sent to my father by a drug company.  On one side was a dull (to me, anyway) lecture on a new drug for treating gall stones or some stomach problem; the other side had Marin Marais' "Le tableau de l'operation de la taille" in English.  I suppose that was the first work of the French Baroque that I ever listened to.  And I listened to it over and over and over.  I was fascinated by the language "they have bound him with silken ties," "Rejoice - the patient liveth!" etc. as much as by the music which I'm sure was the opposite of HIP.  A few years ago, I awoke abruptly on a Sunday morning to hear that same voice saying those same words.  My radio alarm had gone on and Peter Schikele's program was playing on NPR.  I wrote to Schikele about getting a copy of the piece, but never received any response.

Does anyone at all know of an English recording of this work?  I know it won't be the same one, but I would love to get this.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2007, 10:44:36 AM by Bunny »

Offline Bunny

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Re: French Baroque Music
« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2007, 11:28:50 AM »
I've been doing some internet searching since remembering about this recording, and have found out a little about it's history.  First, it was an early HIP recording!  No wonder I was so fascinated.

It was issued by Norgine, and below is a picture of the cover.  The viol da gamba was played by Carel Boomkamp, who was one of Anner Bijlma's teachers, and accompanied by the French harpsichordist, Denyse Gouarne.  No comments about how musical preferences can be set so early in childhood, please! ;)

For those interested, it can be heard at this website: http://www.wfmu.org/365/2007/097.shtml

If anyone can tell me how to make a download of quicktime streaming audio, I'd greatly appreciate it. 

« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 12:30:57 PM by Que »

Offline Florestan

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Re: French Baroque Music
« Reply #37 on: June 28, 2007, 11:40:47 AM »
For those interested, it can be heard at this website: http://www.wfmu.org/365/2007/097.shtml

If anyone can tell me how to make a download of quicktime streaming audio, I'd greatly appreciate it. 


Do you want to download the file from that site?
Regele şi Patria!

Offline Bunny

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Re: French Baroque Music
« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2007, 12:11:02 PM »
Do you want to download the file from that site?

That's the only place I ever saw the recording listed, so yes!

Offline Florestan

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Re: French Baroque Music
« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2007, 10:37:51 PM »
That's the only place I ever saw the recording listed, so yes!

Check PM.
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