Author Topic: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)  (Read 97632 times)

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Offline Josquin13

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #600 on: May 08, 2018, 05:35:49 AM »
Milk writes, "I will check out Frey. I like the Plectrum in addition to Cuiller, Dantone, Sponseller and Beatrice Martin. E.T.A.: Fray is compelling stuff! thanks!!!"

You're most welcome.  Yes, I can't imagine any Bach lover not enjoying Fray's CD.  He's very gifted.

I'm pleased to hear that you already know and like the Plectrum set (not everyone knows about it).  Sponseller and Beatrice Martin are new names to me. I'll check them out, thanks.  I share your enthusiasm for Cuiller and Dantone, though I slightly prefer Cuiller here.  I considered mentioning him, but was trying to limit my choices (otherwise I would have).  Another single CD recording of the concertos that I've liked is the one from Pierre Hantai and Le Concert Français (with François Fernandez on violin), on Naive:

https://www.amazon.com/Bach-Concerti-pour-clavecin-1044/dp/B0000DETBH/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1525787629&sr=1-3&keywords=Pierre+hantai+bach+concertos

https://www.amazon.com/Goldberg-Variations-Concertos-J-S-BACH/dp/B002NVLXBO/ref=sr_1_7?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1525787629&sr=1-7&keywords=Pierre+hantai+bach+concertos

Or, the original issue (same program as above):



If you (or anyone else) is interested in sampling further, the 3 volume set by harpsichordist Lars-Ulrik Mortensen and Concerto Copenhagen (on CPO) is worth considering too.  There's also Bob Van Asperen's set with Melante Amsterdam (& Gustav Leonhardt).

Among recordings that I don't know, I've read positive reviews for harpsichordist Andras Staier's survey with the Freiburger Barockorchester, as well as Aapo Häkkinen's set with the Helsinki Baroque Orchestra, which Mandryka mentions (& which I hope to hear at some point).

But it sounds like you're presently more interested in exploring piano recordings of these works.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 05:56:00 PM by Josquin13 »

Offline milk

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #601 on: May 08, 2018, 07:59:29 PM »
Milk writes, "I will check out Frey. I like the Plectrum in addition to Cuiller, Dantone, Sponseller and Beatrice Martin. E.T.A.: Fray is compelling stuff! thanks!!!"

You're most welcome.  Yes, I can't imagine any Bach lover not enjoying Fray's CD.  He's very gifted.

I'm pleased to hear that you already know and like the Plectrum set (not everyone knows about it).  Sponseller and Beatrice Martin are new names to me. I'll check them out, thanks.  I share your enthusiasm for Cuiller and Dantone, though I slightly prefer Cuiller here.  I considered mentioning him, but was trying to limit my choices (otherwise I would have).  Another single CD recording of the concertos that I've liked is the one from Pierre Hantai and Le Concert Français (with François Fernandez on violin), on Naive:

https://www.amazon.com/Bach-Concerti-pour-clavecin-1044/dp/B0000DETBH/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1525787629&sr=1-3&keywords=Pierre+hantai+bach+concertos

https://www.amazon.com/Goldberg-Variations-Concertos-J-S-BACH/dp/B002NVLXBO/ref=sr_1_7?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1525787629&sr=1-7&keywords=Pierre+hantai+bach+concertos

Or, the original issue (same program as above):



If you (or anyone else) is interested in sampling further, the 3 volume set by harpsichordist Lars-Ulrik Mortensen and Concerto Copenhagen (on CPO) is worth considering too.  There's also Bob Van Asperen's set with Melante Amsterdam (& Gustav Leonhardt).

Among recordings that I don't know, I've read positive reviews for harpsichordist Andras Staier's survey with the Freiburger Barockorchester, as well as Aapo Häkkinen's set with the Helsinki Baroque Orchestra, which Mandryka mentions (& which I hope to hear at some point).

But it sounds like you're presently more interested in exploring piano recordings of these works.
Häkkinen is good.
I might check out the Hantai for 1044. BTW: have you or anyone ever heard this (w/zvi meniker on fortepiano for 1044):

? It’s interesting. Maybe the only fortepiano recording of a Bach concerto. It works well.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 08:41:40 PM by milk »

Offline milk

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #602 on: May 09, 2018, 08:40:40 PM »
Fray is definitely the tops for me now for piano. Tharaud is interesting though because I think he's mixing with a period group here if I'm not mistaken.

Offline Josquin13

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #603 on: May 14, 2018, 07:34:41 AM »
Milk--No, I've not heard the Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin disc, sorry.  I tend to find them hit and miss, very good players, but sometimes their quick tempi are too breathless and quirky, for me.

Les Violins du Roy play on modern instruments, but according to current HIP practices (in so far as that can be accomplished on present day instruments).  I've not heard their recordings with Tharaud, but can find him on the cool side, unlike Fray.  Glad to hear you're enjoying Fray.

Of interest--Fabio Bonizzoni and La Risonanza have just released Volume 1 of a new Bach Harpsichord Concerto cycle, on hybrid SACD.  They wisely (& appropriately) use only one player to a part (for a total of five musicians plus the harpsichordist)--so the project sounds promising.  I've liked Bonizzoni's solo Bach playing in the past--of the Goldberg Variations & Art of the Fugue.  (He plays Scarlatti well too.)  I'll be buying this one.

https://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=12954#reviews


« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 07:36:37 AM by Josquin13 »

Offline milk

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #604 on: May 15, 2018, 12:33:50 AM »
Milk--No, I've not heard the Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin disc, sorry.  I tend to find them hit and miss, very good players, but sometimes their quick tempi are too breathless and quirky, for me.

Les Violins du Roy play on modern instruments, but according to current HIP practices (in so far as that can be accomplished on present day instruments).  I've not heard their recordings with Tharaud, but can find him on the cool side, unlike Fray.  Glad to hear you're enjoying Fray.

Of interest--Fabio Bonizzoni and La Risonanza have just released Volume 1 of a new Bach Harpsichord Concerto cycle, on hybrid SACD.  They wisely (& appropriately) use only one player to a part (for a total of five musicians plus the harpsichordist)--so the project sounds promising.  I've liked Bonizzoni's solo Bach playing in the past--of the Goldberg Variations & Art of the Fugue.  (He plays Scarlatti well too.)  I'll be buying this one.

https://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=12954#reviews


For Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin I can't say I'm a big fan but the novelty of hearing fortepiano on 1044 is something. Bonizzoni looks good although I have so many nice HIP ones already.

Offline milk

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #605 on: May 17, 2018, 02:25:28 PM »
plus two more volumes

The sound quality of these  recordings  from Hakkinen (helped out by Hantai) is wonderful.

16' harpsichord, 1 to a part ensemble.

971 (sounding very good to me!) and 1057, but no 1049!
Listening to this today. I also quite like this. Great balance and juicy instrument.

Offline aukhawk

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #606 on: March 22, 2019, 05:38:16 AM »


I assume this must have been mentioned some time ago but it will be coming out in the next few days. Contents: BWVs 527, 529, 1041, 1042, 1043, 1045, 1052R, 1056R, 1060R, 1067 and sinfonias from BWVs 21, 174 & 182.

Who needs another recording of the Violin Concertos?  Certainly not me having acquired the excellent set by Carmignola not so long ago.  And Isabelle Faust has herself recorded the concertos at least once before.  But I didn't resist very hard, and having just listened to disc 2 of this set two things must be said:

1. These are wonderful performances by all concerned, and most beautifully recorded and balanced.  The orchestra, with 8 violins is perhaps a tad larger than I am used to in this music, but with a real spring in their step and very well integrated - the soloist(s) just - just - poking out from the front desk to make their points and then stepping back into the mix.  Faust's direct style perfectly framed in a sports-GT-like setting.

2. There is a lot more music on offer here than is immediately obvious.  You have to check the small print!  It's a 2-disc set and amw has of course listed the contents for us above.  They include a couple of the Trio Sonatas, in arrangement.  Of Bach's orchestral music, I particularly like the four Orchestral Suites, and No.2 is presented here, transcribed for the violin (rather than flute), in a performance of agility, poise, balance - just everything you could want.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 05:51:41 AM by aukhawk »

Offline Jo498

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #607 on: May 28, 2019, 11:58:39 PM »
As I wrote in another thread I tend to prefer the non-keyboard (violin or reconstructed) versions of the keyboard concerti. However, I also like the keyboard versions and one has to admit that for several concertos they are the authentic versions as the supposed originals have been lost.
These preferences are why I do not have many recordings of them.
I have

on piano: Gould, A major, g minor f minor with Feltsman; one disc with Katsaris, the ones with Edwin Fischer in the EMI icon box and probably another one or two of the d minor as filler.

on harpsichord: Mortensen in  d minor, D major, E major, a few more of the d minor in boxes (Leonhardt, Hantai)
Pinnock for the multiples w/o BWV 1060, 1061+62 w/ Musica alta ripa

So I would be in the market for another disc with piano to get a modern piano version of the E major 1053 (maybe my favorite of the ones without an "original") and I have only Gould and the historical Fischer) and another harpsichord disc for the A major, g minor and f minor (I can skip the F major as I clearly prefer the Brandenburg version). An easy option for the latter would be Vol.2 of Mortensen/cpo that includes the F major (still quite a short disc, they put the multiple ones in another volume) but I am open to other recommendations.

On piano there is a selection with Schiff on eloquence. The highly regarded anthologies by Tharaud and Fray don't include 1053 but there are certainly plenty of other piano recordings.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #608 on: May 29, 2019, 02:36:43 AM »
How about this, Kocsis playing, it looks like it's on youtube so you can check it out for yourself. Kocsis is like a latter day Edwin Fischer IMO, he has the same demonic intensity.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 02:45:02 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Jo498

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #609 on: May 30, 2019, 07:17:11 AM »
Thanks; most of the Kocsis is on youtube (a few single movements seem to be missing or misplaced). I think youtube will suffice for now. I am not willing to pay considerable money for a used copy of a > 40 year old recording. It's really a pity that hungaroton is not better distributed or made cheap reissues or licensed their recordings to someone else (they did but a long time ago).
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #610 on: May 30, 2019, 07:22:04 AM »
My preference is Gavrilov



I've also listened to Schiff/Decca and Hewitt/Hyperion, but Gavrilov made the strongest impression on me.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #611 on: May 30, 2019, 07:43:02 AM »
How about this, Kocsis playing, it looks like it's on youtube so you can check it out for yourself. Kocsis is like a latter day Edwin Fischer IMO, he has the same demonic intensity.



But it’s available directly from Hungaroton.

https://hungarotonmusic.com/classical/bach-concertos-for-p2549.html
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Jo498

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #612 on: June 29, 2019, 10:09:59 AM »
Koopman plays a reconstruction of BWV 1059 on organ. I have this also as an "oboe" concerto where (I think) all the movements are taking from cantatas with the somewhat famous central movement coming from the opening of BWV 156) In Koopman's version the outer movements seem based on the same material (but obviously with organ) but the central movement is completely different. It does sound like a trio sonata movement but I don't think it's from one of the well known 6 organ trios? Can anybody identify the basis of this piece?
(I only have the spartanic "Bonsai" edition that does not have this kind of information.)
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Marc

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #613 on: June 29, 2019, 10:32:49 AM »
Koopman plays a reconstruction of BWV 1059 on organ. I have this also as an "oboe" concerto where (I think) all the movements are taking from cantatas with the somewhat famous central movement coming from the opening of BWV 156) In Koopman's version the outer movements seem based on the same material (but obviously with organ) but the central movement is completely different. It does sound like a trio sonata movement but I don't think it's from one of the well known 6 organ trios? Can anybody identify the basis of this piece?
(I only have the spartanic "Bonsai" edition that does not have this kind of information.)

It's an arrangement of the aria "Gott hat alles wohl gemacht!" from Cantata BWV 35.
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Offline Jo498

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #614 on: June 29, 2019, 10:31:03 PM »
Thanks! I have heard this cantata but apparently not remember it well enough.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Jo498

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #615 on: July 20, 2019, 07:49:58 AM »
Another question for people with different issues/LPs.
I have a box with Leppard's Brandenburg concerti, suites etc. but the information is rather incomplete. Leppard is mentioned as harpsichordist of the a minor triple concerto and there is another hpschd player mentioned for two of the suites. Is Leppard playing in all the other pieces, incl. Brandenburg 5? And is Neil Black the leading oboist also in the suites?
And what piece is the movement played as middle movement of Brandenburg 3.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #616 on: July 20, 2019, 09:07:04 AM »
Another question for people with different issues/LPs.
I have a box with Leppard's Brandenburg concerti, suites etc. but the information is rather incomplete. Leppard is mentioned as harpsichordist of the a minor triple concerto and there is another hpschd player mentioned for two of the suites. Is Leppard playing in all the other pieces, incl. Brandenburg 5? And is Neil Black the leading oboist also in the suites?
And what piece is the movement played as middle movement of Brandenburg 3.

I do not own Leppard's orchestral suites (I know I should, since I own about 50 other recordings of the suites), but this may help:

https://www.discogs.com/Johann-Sebastian-Bach-English-Chamber-Orchestra-Raymond-Leppard-Die-4-Orchestersuiten/release/3304736

As to the Brandenburgs Leppard is credited for leading all the concertos from the harpsichord. The inserted slow movement in concerto 3 is the Largo from the Sonata in G Major BWV 1021 for violin and basso continuo.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 10:19:50 AM by (: premont :) »
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Offline Jo498

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #617 on: July 20, 2019, 12:38:23 PM »
thanks, this has a little more info than my cds (it's a 4 disc set from Philips 80s/90s dark red/silver line with minimal information) and confirms some of them, too. I suspected the Leppard was on Harpsichord except for the mentioned two suites but it was not clear.
I finally begin liking the suites (which used to be some of my least favorite Bach). The b minor works better for me in minimalist (MAK or Malloch) fashion, but I quite like Leppard in the others. Looking forward to listening to the Brandenburgs as well.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #618 on: July 20, 2019, 01:22:36 PM »
thanks, this has a little more info than my cds (it's a 4 disc set from Philips 80s/90s dark red/silver line with minimal information) and confirms some of them, too. I suspected the Leppard was on Harpsichord except for the mentioned two suites but it was not clear.
I finally begin liking the suites (which used to be some of my least favorite Bach). The b minor works better for me in minimalist (MAK or Malloch) fashion, but I quite like Leppard in the others. Looking forward to listening to the Brandenburgs as well.

If the information on your set is too sparse, I may do a list of the soloists in the Brandenburgs, if you want.
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heldigt nok at tiden går.

Offline Jo498

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #619 on: July 21, 2019, 07:43:50 AM »
Don't bother for now. I am travelling over the weekend, so I cannot be precise but in fact most soloists are listed, there were just a few odd ommissions like some oboe players in the suites and that ambiguity if Leppard really plays in  all pieces besides two suites.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

 

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