Author Topic: Only the New (music)  (Read 62143 times)

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Philoctetes

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Re: Only the New
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2010, 09:28:38 AM »
I have this CD somewhere, I think, but it has never had it's turn in the CD player.



Is Turnage any good, or particularly "modern?"

I've not heard him, but...

"His initial musical studies were with Oliver Knussen, John Lambert, and later with Gunther Schuller.He also has been strongly influenced by jazz, in particular by the work of Miles Davis.

Turnage's music has a characteristic personal style, with strong rhythmic thrust, involved jazz harmonies, colourful orchestration with prominent use of percussion, and hints of various orchestrational sounds from Duke Ellington to 1970s TV detective series theme tunes..."

He sounds awesome.

Philoctetes

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Re: Only the New
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2010, 09:33:19 AM »
Here's some Turnage:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/o8vpl3YiyAo" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/o8vpl3YiyAo</a>

Offline Benji

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Re: Only the New
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2010, 09:34:17 AM »
I was just posting that video damn it!  ;D

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Only the New
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2010, 09:37:58 AM »
Thought I don't doubt your final statement could well be true it makes me sad to read this. I thought you were better than that.

They say that those who forget the past are destined to repeat it, but when it comes to music I think those who fixate on the past are certain to repeat it, ad infinitum. If all mankind had that kind of attitude we'd still be living in cold dark caves! Innovation is the life-blood of music - and i'd imagine that someone so fond of the early 20th century music would be acutely and especially aware of that. Which begs the question: how can you not care? How can you not be fascinated, curious, or even just plain glad that innovation continues?

I'm just curious, as it seems of out of character.

I guess I shouldn't have said that I don't care, because now that I think about I do, but I should have said that I've got enough music on my plate right now that I couldn't possibly begin to start listening to the music of today.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2010, 09:40:05 AM by Mirror Image »
"In the next world, I shan't be doing music, with all the striving and disappointments. I shall be being it.” - Ralph Vaughan Williams

Offline some guy

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Re: Only the New
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2010, 09:39:24 AM »
Well, there's new and there's recent. A piece can be recent without being new. Nothing easier, really.

As for Scarpia's comment, I have a question: Why not play the instrument? The whole instrument, not just part of it. And in ways that were not thought of by the original designer. Sure those old techniques are fine and produced a lot of very delightful music. But they're not the only techniques possible, nor are the musics they produce the only delightful musics.

Anyway, on with the music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN8xk7xTWLg&feature=related

This is a short excerpt from Miguel Azguime's  Itinerário do Sal. I saw this live in Bourges in 2007--I highly recommend seeing it live, nice though the video is!

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Only the New
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2010, 09:44:07 AM »
You're making this composer cry, MI.

Don't cry Karl! I shouldn't have posted that message. I guess what pains me is that there are composers that have been dead for say 30-40 years now that seldom get played or recorded and that deserve as much as chance as anyone who composes music today. In fact, I think in our current musical environment that people place too much importance on the Baroque, Classical, and Romantic Eras when there's so much in the 20th Century that needs to be performed and given a chance.
"In the next world, I shan't be doing music, with all the striving and disappointments. I shall be being it.” - Ralph Vaughan Williams

Philoctetes

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Re: Only the New
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2010, 09:45:28 AM »
Well, there's new and there's recent. A piece can be recent without being new. Nothing easier, really.

As for Scarpia's comment, I have a question: Why not play the instrument? The whole instrument, not just part of it. And in ways that were not thought of by the original designer. Sure those old techniques are fine and produced a lot of very delightful music. But they're not the only techniques possible, nor are the musics they produce the only delightful musics.

Anyway, on with the music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN8xk7xTWLg&feature=related

This is a short excerpt from Miguel Azguime's  Itinerário do Sal. I saw this live in Bourges in 2007--I highly recommend seeing it live, nice though the video is!

Love that mixed and/or multimedia art.

Scarpia

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Re: Only the New
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2010, 09:48:07 AM »
As for Scarpia's comment, I have a question: Why not play the instrument? The whole instrument, not just part of it. And in ways that were not thought of by the original designer. Sure those old techniques are fine and produced a lot of very delightful music. But they're not the only techniques possible, nor are the musics they produce the only delightful musics.

I can agree that it is somewhat arbitrary that we have decided that there are about a dozen "standard" instruments like violin, oboe, trombone, piano, etc, that are allowed in classical music.  It would make sense to me to develop new instruments.  But playing a cello in a way that it makes squeeky noises, that's interesting?   Not to me.  I'm interested in new music, but I am primarily interested in the basic elements of music, melody, harmony, rhythm, counterpoint, tone color.   It's harder to think of a variety of harmony that no one has thought of before than to play your violin with a turkey baster.



Philoctetes

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Re: Only the New
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2010, 09:52:57 AM »
I can agree that it is somewhat arbitrary that we have decided that there are about a dozen "standard" instruments like violin, oboe, trombone, piano, etc, that are allowed in classical music.  It would make sense to me to develop new instruments.  But playing a cello in a way that it makes squeeky noises, that's interesting?   Not to me.  I'm interested in new music, but I am primarily interested in the basic elements of music, melody, harmony, rhythm, counterpoint, tone color.   It's harder to think of a variety of harmony that no one has thought of before than to play your violin with a turkey baster.

Again, that's completely fair, but you speak of the 'basic' elements of music, is not dragging the bow across the string, about as 'basic' as one can get? I find it interesting, not only in the sounds that were created, but in the way that they were created, and what they were created with.

Offline some guy

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Re: Only the New
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2010, 10:00:51 AM »
It would make sense to me to develop new instruments.  But playing a cello in a way that it makes squeeky noises, that's interesting?   Not to me.
But you're not the only one listening. It is interesting to me. So at least I win, eh? Besides, to my father the violin played the "normal" way was just a bunch of squeaky noises. So where does that leave us? 
I'm interested in new music, but I am primarily interested in the basic elements of music, melody, harmony, rhythm, counterpoint, tone color.   It's harder to think of a variety of harmony that no one has thought of before than to play your violin with a turkey baster.
But new music composers are interested, some of them, in other things besides these basic elements. Though if by melody you mean sounds going higher or lower, and by harmony sounds sounding together, and by rhythm sounds sounding in time, and so forth, then fine! That cello piece was full of all of those things.

Otherwise, the degree of difficulty is no guarantee of anything. If playing your violin with a turkey baster sounds nice, then why the hell not?

(Philoctetes, glad you liked the Azguime. I got to meet him after the show, so can also report that he's a really nice guy. I've run into him from time to time at other festivals, too, and he has continued to be just as charming as he was at first!)

Scarpia

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Re: Only the New
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2010, 10:02:56 AM »
Again, that's completely fair, but you speak of the 'basic' elements of music, is not dragging the bow across the string, about as 'basic' as one can get? I find it interesting, not only in the sounds that were created, but in the way that they were created, and what they were created with.

Well, I won't claim you are wrong to find it interesting. 

People work very hard to make a tone of well-defined pitch by scraping a bow across a string.  It's not automatic.  If you are not skilled, you produce noise, not to dissimilar to that youtube video.   ;D

Philoctetes

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Re: Only the New
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2010, 10:03:40 AM »
Well, I won't claim you are wrong to find it interesting. 

People work very hard to make a tone of well-defined pitch by scraping a bow across a string.  It's not automatic.  If you are not skilled, you produce noise, not to dissimilar to that youtube video.   ;D

 :P

Philoctetes

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Re: Only the New
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2010, 10:15:28 AM »
But you're not the only one listening. It is interesting to me. So at least I win, eh? Besides, to my father the violin played the "normal" way was just a bunch of squeaky noises. So where does that leave us?  But new music composers are interested, some of them, in other things besides these basic elements. Though if by melody you mean sounds going higher or lower, and by harmony sounds sounding together, and by rhythm sounds sounding in time, and so forth, then fine! That cello piece was full of all of those things.

Otherwise, the degree of difficulty is no guarantee of anything. If playing your violin with a turkey baster sounds nice, then why the hell not?

(Philoctetes, glad you liked the Azguime. I got to meet him after the show, so can also report that he's a really nice guy. I've run into him from time to time at other festivals, too, and he has continued to be just as charming as he was at first!)

Heartedly agree with this post.

I think that mixed/multi-media art is my favorite. It was a very striking work, and that's pretty neat that you got to meet him, and even better that he was a nice guy.

Offline snyprrr

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Re: Only the New
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2010, 11:50:08 AM »
I'm certainly interested in modern music, but I'm just as certainly not interested in any music similar to what is depicted in this video.  To take an instrument like the cello that has been engineered over centuries to produce a rich tone when played a certain way, then make some absurd modification to the instrument or technique make it sound "different" strike me as idiotic.  To invent melodies, rhythms, and harmonies that have not been imagined before takes intelligence, and that is would I would like to find.

My difficulty is that the traditional methods of finding new music don't lead to much really modern music.  Production is motivated by demand, and there is no demand for music that people have never heard or heard of.  So demand for new art music builds up slowly.  I guess truly "commercial" music works differently, since music produces "manufacture" new artists to satisfy a demand which is itself manufactured through advertising and promotion.

+10

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Philoctetes

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Re: Only the New
« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2010, 12:00:28 PM »
I am listening to some new music (for me) - right at this moment:

Ferdinand Ries: Piano Quartet Op. 13 in F Minor.

At no point did Mr. Ries feel it necessary to instruct any of the musicians to do anything out of the ordinary with their instruments.

I am enjoying it very much.

:)

Glad to hear that you are enjoying it. Although, what do you mean exactly by 'out of the ordinary'? Do you simply mean that the instruments are being utilized in their traditional manners?

Scarpia

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Re: Only the New
« Reply #35 on: November 09, 2010, 12:07:45 PM »
+10

I need a tranquilizer right now. Some say I will die from apoplexy. I join you in a saluatory FacePalm. I'm,...I'm speechless. I feel I am being mocked. And you? Am I a boor?

I'm not sure why you thought that this post had anything in particular to do with you.   ???

Philoctetes

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Re: Only the New
« Reply #36 on: November 09, 2010, 01:57:43 PM »
Let's add another to the mix. Tansy Davies:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/uy_E9U7IuK4" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/uy_E9U7IuK4</a>

greg

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Re: Only the New
« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2010, 06:04:27 PM »
We're glad to see you back, too.

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Only the New
« Reply #38 on: November 09, 2010, 06:17:02 PM »
Ugh ... gonna be physically ill from listening to this TRASH!

Lol...missed your directness my friend. :D
"In the next world, I shan't be doing music, with all the striving and disappointments. I shall be being it.” - Ralph Vaughan Williams

Philoctetes

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Re: Only the New
« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2010, 07:26:40 PM »
Let's continue down this path: Julien Anderson

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/xkoepBb_Lbw" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/xkoepBb_Lbw</a>

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