Author Topic: Found one - Alemdar Abitovych Karamanov  (Read 4561 times)

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Offline schweitzeralan

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Found one - Alemdar Abitovych Karamanov
« on: December 16, 2010, 12:10:33 PM »
In my continuing searches my luck has been sort of so an so in terms of coming cross a work I could appreciate or listen to intently for some time.  I have read articles and reviews on my well known apostles as well as on several composers whose works were unfamiliar to me personally, although these were known to several other "culto" listeners, professional or otherwise. One discovery was Almendar Karamanov.Two recorded works were listened on a Naxos Marco/Polo label; viz., Symphony #3 and Piano Concerto #3.  Both are strong works.  The Symphony teds to be modernist and avant-garde, and I shall need to hear it several times before committing myself to any judgement or critique.  The Piano con Concerto, on the other hand, is superb.  Musical language is pure modernist; dramatic and subtle with Rachmaninoff's influences here and there.  Subtle harmonies.  Fine now known and appreciated work on my part.  Recommended.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2010, 07:38:23 AM by Que »

MN Dave

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Re: Found one
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2010, 12:59:06 PM »
Congratulations. It's always a good feeling finding something new and worthwhile.

Offline jimmosk

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Re: Found one
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2010, 10:29:00 PM »
It's hard to dig up much information about AK on the net, but there's a very nice article about him here: http://musicfilestoo.blogspot.com/2008/05/alemdar-karamanov.html

I find his religious fervor to be a distraction, since it tends to make his complex musical arguments peter out into simple mystical minimalism. But I nevertheless find it quite interesting.  A small correction: the article calls Karamanov's "Blessed Are the Dead" symphony his #2, when actually it's his #20.

-J
Jim Moskowitz / The Unknown Composers Page / http://kith.org/jimmosk
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"On the whole, I think the whole musical world is oblivious of all the bitterness, resentment, iconoclasm, and denunciation that lies behind my music." --Percy Grainger(!)

Offline schweitzeralan

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Re: Found one
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2010, 08:15:16 AM »
It's hard to dig up much information about AK on the net, but there's a very nice article about him here: http://musicfilestoo.blogspot.com/2008/05/alemdar-karamanov.html

I find his religious fervor to be a distraction, since it tends to make his complex musical arguments peter out into simple mystical minimalism. But I nevertheless find it quite interesting.  A small correction: the article calls Karamanov's "Blessed Are the Dead" symphony his #2, when actually it's his #20.


Thanks for the info.  I personally like several moments of the Concerto.  Now that you mentioned it, the work does develop along  ongoing prevalent minimalist tendencies during the time  these works were conceived.

-J

Offline some guy

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Re: Found one
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2010, 10:33:48 AM »
In my continuing searches my luck has been sort of so an so in terms of coming cross a work I could appreciate or listen to intently for some time.
schweitzeralan, you seem here to be locating the cause of your malaise in the music itself. Surely there are more possibilities than that. (At least one of them is also identified in this quote.) It's only a guess, but I'd put money on it: if you explore the other possibilities, you might find that your luck will change. I know that this happened to me, anyway. I spend many happy years looking for other pieces like Poème électronique and Orient-Occident. Then I went through a phase of dismay that there weren't more of these. Then I started to learn how to listen to other kinds of things.

And this was all long after I'd become a mature and sophisticated listener. Still room to grow, apparently.

Now, I don't like everything, the conclusion James always leaps to about me. ;D I still don't like 70s synthesizer music like Davidovsky and Chasalow. Nor practically any pop or country/western, haha. But I've found that I can enjoy quite a lot of things now that I couldn't enjoy ten years ago, or twenty, or thirty....

Anyway, happy searching.

Offline schweitzeralan

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Re: Found one
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2010, 01:05:58 PM »
schweitzeralan, you seem here to be locating the cause of your malaise in the music itself. Surely there are more possibilities than that. (At least one of them is also identified in this quote.) It's only a guess, but I'd put money on it: if you explore the other possibilities, you might find that your luck will change. I know that this happened to me, anyway. I spend many happy years looking for other pieces like Poème électronique and Orient-Occident. Then I went through a phase of dismay that there weren't more of these. Then I started to learn how to listen to other kinds of things.

And this was all long after I'd become a mature and sophisticated listener. Still room to grow, apparently.

Now, I don't like everything, the conclusion James always leaps to about me. ;D I still don't like 70s synthesizer music like Davidovsky and Chasalow. Nor practically any pop or country/western, haha. But I've found that I can enjoy quite a lot of things now that I couldn't enjoy ten years ago, or twenty, or thirty....

Anyway, happy searching.
I agree.  I have to admit I have never fallen under the spell of music that was classified as 'popular."  I won't get into this.  Howver, since I was a young kid growing up, I was exposed to many of the music of the great masters over the centuries.  I need not name them.  Since the fifties and sixties my interests became limited to classical works conceived roughly from=m 1890-1960.  It;s been a long time, but my preferences have been even more of a specialized nature.  Composers like Sibelius, Bax, Debussy, Ravel, Scriabin, Gliere, are favorites, and I tend to appreciate musical 'language," or "structure," developed by composers whose works are similar to the aforementioned.  Purely personal.  Thanks for the reply. Much appreciated.

Offline some guy

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Re: Found one
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2010, 04:14:14 PM »
Fortunately, James, neither the quality of the music I listen to nor the quality of my enjoyment of it depends in any way upon your approval.

Offline DavidRoss

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Re: Found one
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2010, 04:22:06 PM »
Now, I don't like everything, the conclusion James always leaps to about me. ;D
Huh?  I always thought you and "James" were the same guy.  Is that what the wink is for?
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Offline some guy

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Re: Found one
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2010, 04:51:11 PM »
Uh oh, you've discovered the most closely guarded secret of GMG: there are only three posters, each taking on a dozen or more different personae.

Now, we're going to have to kill you. :-*

Offline schweitzeralan

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Re: Found one
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2010, 07:12:42 PM »
Congratulations. It's always a good feeling finding something new and worthwhile.

There is information on this composer but not not all that much.

http://pipl.com/directory/people/Alemdar/Karamanov


Offline Dax

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Re: Found one
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2010, 04:08:46 AM »
I'm a big fan of the Karamanov symphonies I've heard and (especially) the 3rd piano concerto. So thumbs up.
In the sleeve notes of the Olympia recording of Symphonies 20 + 23 is the following message:- Full information about the composer, his works, performances, recordings and the newly formed Karamanov Society is available from (name, English address, phone + fax no followed). An identical message plus enclose a stamped addressed envelope appeared amongst the sleeve notes of the Marco Polo recording of Symphony 3 + Piano concerto 3. I tried both after I purchased the CDs (1998). When I phoned, my interest was greeted with something considerably less than eagerness and a manner which was snooty and somewhat less than friendly. My sae was of course ignored.
Meta-ironic or what?

« Last Edit: December 21, 2010, 05:34:00 AM by Dax »

Offline schweitzeralan

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Re: Found one
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2010, 07:02:43 AM »
I'm a big fan of the Karamanov symphonies I've and (especially) the 3rd piano concerto. So thumbs up.
In the sleeve notes of the Olympia recording of Symphonies 20 + 23 is the following message:- Full information about the composer, his works, performances, recordings and the newly formed Karamanov Society is available from (name, English address, phone + fax no followed). An identical message plus enclose a stamped addressed envelope appeared amongst the sleeve notes of the Marco Polo recording of Symphony 3 + Piano concerto 3. I tried both after I purchased the CDs (1998). When I phoned, my interest was greeted with something considerably less than eager and a manner which was snooty and somewhat less than friendly. My sae was of course ignored.
Meta-ironic or what?

I never realized he wrote 23 symphonies.  Rather prolific, I'd assume.  I'll try YouTube to ascertain if anything of Karamanov is available.
I don't think there's going to be all that much.  I'm appreciating his Concerto more and more with each listening. What are his other works like?  I used to listen to the intense rythmic, "back to Bach" era starting with the Modernist generation of the '40's and 50's; however, I became somewhat old fashioned and preferred the previous generation of composers: Sibelius, Bax, Scriabin, Debussy, Ravel, Hanson, Reichel, and a host of composers who were once criticized by THEIR previous generation as being much too "Tonally Advanced."  Again, to each his/her own.

Offline Dax

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Re: Found one - Alemdar Abitovych Karamanov
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2010, 09:14:48 AM »
I've listened to symphonies 20. 22 + 23 this afternoon. They are full of surprises and rather well orchestrated. I suspect they may well be your cup of tea although the post-Rachmaninov element is not nearly as strong as in the concerto.

Offline schweitzeralan

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Re: Found one - Alemdar Abitovych Karamanov
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2010, 12:15:37 PM »
I've listened to symphonies 20. 22 + 23 this afternoon. They are full of surprises and rather well orchestrated. I suspect they may well be your cup of tea although the post-Rachmaninov element is not nearly as strong as in the concerto.

OK.  There are, or were so many great Russian composers besides the superstars.  I listen regularly to Roslavetz, Alexandrov, Samuil Feinnberg, Obuchov, Stanchinsky,,Polowinkin, Schtscherbatscow, plus others I play (dabble) on piano.  I just never came across Karamanov.  Indeed, I was so "into" many of the Modernist composers years ago.  So many are great ones; Eliot Carter was one of my most revered artists.  There were many others, but memory fails me for the moment. Of course I was introduced to Bartok, Hindemith, and many Modernist American composers, many of these were on the fringes. For now  I just continue my search for neo-debussyists.  Tailleferre, one of "Les Six," wrote marvelous works which smack of Ravelian persuasions. He was her mentor, I believe. I discovered her just five years ago.  I would also love to hear neo Scriabinists, but I know it's a dead end.  Takemitsu has some affinities with earlier French maestros; viz, Debussy and Messiaen. Thanks for your response.  So many posters are well informed.

Offline Dax

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Re: Found one - Alemdar Abitovych Karamanov
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2010, 04:03:51 PM »
I'd be interested to know if these interest you.

G major Intermezzo from op 10 (1910)
http://www.sendspace.com/file/gm9ywh

Sonata-Fantasy no 1 op 69 (1926)
http://www.sendspace.com/file/abziup

They're by Henning Mankell (1868-1930), grandfather of the Wallander author.

Offline schweitzeralan

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Re: Found one - Alemdar Abitovych Karamanov
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2010, 07:13:18 PM »
I'd be interested to know if these interest you.

G major Intermezzo from op 10 (1910)
http://www.sendspace.com/file/gm9ywh

Sonata-Fantasy no 1 op 69 (1926)
http://www.sendspace.com/file/abziup

They're by Henning Mankell (1868-1930), grandfather of the Wallander author.


The SonataFantasy is quite interesting.  I'll give it and the Intermezzo more listenings.  Thanks again for your replies and your suggested downloaded works.

Offline Dax

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Re: Found one - Alemdar Abitovych Karamanov
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2010, 05:49:59 AM »
Those are old recordings by Bengt Forsberg which seem to have vanished. There's a recent double CD which I've been much impressed with of late. And here are a few impressions from another forum.
http://www.r3ok.com/index.php/topic,2537.msg89798.html#msg89798

Offline Dax

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Re: Found one - Alemdar Abitovych Karamanov
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2010, 07:14:12 PM »
There's a thesis on the Karamanov 3rd piano concerto

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=karamanov+piano+concerto+3+thesis&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Click on the pdf link - 2nd one in the list.  It's by no means a wonderful study, but, inevitably, it does contain some interesting stuff.