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toucan

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« on: March 12, 2011, 09:11:00 AM »
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« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 09:15:56 PM by ----- »

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Liebst du Liszt's lieder?
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2011, 01:02:29 PM »
Outstanding sequence of the three Petrarc Sonnets here


Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline The new erato

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Re: Liebst du Liszt's lieder?
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2011, 01:30:56 PM »
Very timely post! I have this:



first volume in a planned complete series nearly at the top of my to-listen-to pile.

Offline Harry Powell

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Re: Liebst du Liszt's lieder?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2011, 03:18:10 PM »
Outstanding sequence of the three Petrarc Sonnets here



That set has the interest of including "Io vidi in terra" but pales when you listen to Pavarotti's earlier live recordings of "Benedetto sia il giorno" and "Pace non trovo". There's a 1978 broadcast from German TV which defies description.
I'm not an native English speaker, so please feel free to let me know if I'm not expressing myself clearly.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Liebst du Liszt's lieder?
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2011, 12:27:44 AM »
That set has the interest of including "Io vidi in terra" but pales when you listen to Pavarotti's earlier live recordings of "Benedetto sia il giorno" and "Pace non trovo". There's a 1978 broadcast from German TV which defies description.

Ah -- you've made me interested  :)

Can you give me a link to this description defying broadcast? Or failing that, to other earlier lives.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Harry Powell

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Re: Liebst du Liszt's lieder?
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2011, 04:16:44 AM »
Of course I can. Here you have two posts from my blog (with comments in Spanish):

http://estanochebarralibre.blogspot.com/2007/09/benedetto-sial-giorno-el-mese-e-lanno.html
http://estanochebarralibre.blogspot.com/2007/11/pavarotti-en-recital.html

When Pavarotti sang like that he was the best tenor in the world.
I'm not an native English speaker, so please feel free to let me know if I'm not expressing myself clearly.

Offline MishaK

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Re: Liebst du Liszts Lieder?
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2011, 07:15:22 AM »
For proper German, capitalize all nouns and no apostrophe for the genitive -s. I.e.: Liebst du Listzs Lieder?  ;)

Offline Harry Powell

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Re: Liebst du Liszt's lieder?
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2011, 12:44:45 PM »
For proper listening experience find better singers than the superficial, showy, vulgar, loud and therefore popular Pavarotti.... :-*

Wow, you are a true comedian!
I'm not an native English speaker, so please feel free to let me know if I'm not expressing myself clearly.

Offline Florestan

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Re: Liebst du Liszt's lieder?
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2011, 03:53:16 AM »
Wow, you are a true comedian!

He's far from being funny. He just like to throw bombs in a crowded place and then run away never looking back.  Not worth more of your time than needed to read its posts.  ;D
"Music expresses that which cannot be said and upon which it is impossible to remain silent." - Victor Hugo

Offline The new erato

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Re: Liebst du Liszt's lieder?
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2011, 04:01:08 AM »
He's far from being funny. He just like to throw bombs in a crowded place and then run away never looking back.  Not worth more of your time than needed to read its posts.  ;D
Good advice. All boards have some of these, as you are new you can save some time (and frustration) by listening to this.

Offline Harry Powell

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Re: Liebst du Liszt's lieder?
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2011, 06:33:04 AM »
I was considering the possibility of a mere troll, but also that of a false connoisseur who has a superficial knowledge of Pavarotti's career.

For good taste and intelligence, avoid internet morons...

Good advice. Goobdye and good riddance.
I'm not an native English speaker, so please feel free to let me know if I'm not expressing myself clearly.

Offline Florestan

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Re: Liebst du Liszt's lieder?
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2011, 06:42:37 AM »
a superficial knowledge of Pavarotti's career.

I see nothing wrong in Pavarotti's being both a consummate performer and a popular one. Actually, I think this is an ideal state of things, when someone achieves popular status without in the least compromising his artistry.

"Music expresses that which cannot be said and upon which it is impossible to remain silent." - Victor Hugo

Offline Harry Powell

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Re: Liebst du Liszt's lieder?
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2011, 07:01:04 AM »
Well, it's a complex matter. I indeed think that Pavarotti compromised his artistry when he devoted to performing in non-operatic venues. He became a singer interested just in pleasing his fans and singing in a recognizable but superficial way (the comparison with crooners it's obvious). He was also in decline and took advantage of the microphone. The problem is to ignore how good he was during his first twenty years of career: one of the few postwar tenors to revive Golden Age singing.
I'm not an native English speaker, so please feel free to let me know if I'm not expressing myself clearly.

Offline The new erato

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Re: Liebst du Liszt's lieder?
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2011, 07:08:43 AM »
Well, it's a complex matter. I indeed think that Pavarotti compromised his artistry when he devoted to performing in non-operatic venues. He became a singer interested just in pleasing his fans and singing in a recognizable but superficial way (the comparison with crooners it's obvious). He was also in decline and took advantage of the microphone. The problem is to ignore how good he was during his first twenty years of career: one of the few postwar tenors to revive Golden Age singing.
Yes...wondered if to post along these lines earlier, now you made it unneccessary!

Offline Florestan

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Re: Liebst du Liszt's lieder?
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2011, 07:12:21 AM »
Well, it's a complex matter. I indeed think that Pavarotti compromised his artistry when he devoted to performing in non-operatic venues.

Well, as you said he was already in decline --- I am more than willing to see this as a conscientious sacrifice in order to attract more audience to opera (the lucrative side of the whole thing notwithstanding).  :)

What do you think of Placido Domingo / Jose Carreras in the same respect?

"Music expresses that which cannot be said and upon which it is impossible to remain silent." - Victor Hugo

Offline Florestan

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Re: Liebst du Liszt's lieder?
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2011, 07:24:27 AM »
A thread devoted to a man - Liszt - who let go of earthly vanities,

Are you being serious? Liszt (alongside Paganini) invented the one-man-show to impress the faint-hearted bourgeoisie; his body of works features, alongisde truly divine and spiritually lifting compositions, the most bombastic, vulgar and popular-appealing pastiches one could think of; he tasted all earthly pleasures, physical love being not the least of them --- and you would us believe he "let go of early vanities"? Well, yes, he did --- but only after trying them all.  ;D
"Music expresses that which cannot be said and upon which it is impossible to remain silent." - Victor Hugo

Offline Florestan

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Re: Liebst du Liszt's lieder?
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2011, 10:21:49 AM »
As suggested in the opening post, the deepened and pessimistic Liszt of the end is obviously and regretably little known.

Little known by whom? Certainly not by Liszt lovers.

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Liszt tasted all earthly pleasures because he could.

This is true of many people, nothing peculiar to Liszt.

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he had the good heart to be destroyed within by the deaths of his children

This is a common human trait, nothing peculiar to Liszt either.

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To enjoy life while one can, and then to be deepened by disappointment and experience: a perfect life.

Perfect? Would you be willing to trade the life of your children for a "deepening" experience?
"Music expresses that which cannot be said and upon which it is impossible to remain silent." - Victor Hugo

Offline Harry Powell

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Re: Liebst du Liszt's lieder?
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2011, 01:23:23 PM »
Well, as you said he was already in decline --- I am more than willing to see this as a conscientious sacrifice in order to attract more audience to opera (the lucrative side of the whole thing notwithstanding).  :)

What do you think of Placido Domingo / Jose Carreras in the same respect?

Well, Domingo has followed Pavarotti's example to the letter (for him the Pav was an obsession). As a matter of fact he's extended his career for the last twenty years relying on the same principle of being a recognizable rather than a truly personal singer. One has just to study his singing to realise that he just exploits the beauty of his timbre and is faithful to a number of habits which his fans always expect to hear.

Carreras ruined his voice before he could follow these steps.

I never cared too much for these singers, anyway. They lacked the classical-schooled technique that Pavarotti boasted.
I'm not an native English speaker, so please feel free to let me know if I'm not expressing myself clearly.

Offline The new erato

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Re: Liebst du Liszt's lieder?
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2011, 11:03:15 PM »
Are you being serious? Liszt (alongside Paganini) invented the one-man-show to impress the faint-hearted bourgeoisie; his body of works features, alongisde truly divine and spiritually lifting compositions, the most bombastic, vulgar and popular-appealing pastiches one could think of; he tasted all earthly pleasures, physical love being not the least of them --- and you would us believe he "let go of early vanities"? Well, yes, he did --- but only after trying them all.  ;D
In short, he was the Mick Jagger of the time.

Offline Florestan

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Re: Liebst du Liszt's lieder?
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2011, 06:58:55 AM »
In short, he was the Mick Jagger of the time.

Has Mick Jagger joined the Franciscans? Wow!  :o  ;D
"Music expresses that which cannot be said and upon which it is impossible to remain silent." - Victor Hugo