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Offline Lethevich

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Re: Is Shostakovich fading?
« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2011, 01:29:58 AM »
Well, toucan, let's suppose that we give you the answer that you want -- that Shostakovich's popularity is fading; what do you propose on doing after that?

Then GMG can finally listen to him properly, as he won't be popular anymore :)
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

Offline Opus106

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Re: Is Shostakovich fading?
« Reply #41 on: April 22, 2011, 01:49:14 AM »
Then GMG can finally listen to him properly, as he won't be popular anymore :)

I call dibs on recognising this underrated composer and single-handedly bringing him to the attention of the wider world in 2029. :D
Regards,
Navneeth

karlhenning

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Re: Is Shostakovich fading?
« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2011, 09:14:06 AM »
New 2011 Shostakovich CDs so far:






New 2011 Thalberg CDs so far:







(none)

And . . . new 2011 Boulez CDs? . . .

Offline Brian

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Re: Is Shostakovich fading?
« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2011, 10:32:49 AM »
Toucan, how is the greatness of music defined?

Scarpia

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Re: Is Shostakovich fading?
« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2011, 10:36:18 AM »
There are more mediocrities out there then there are quality people; therefore simple-minded second rates like Shostakovich get more recordings in the short run than great composers like Boulez or Lutoslawski or Dutilleux or Messiaen. But this counts for no more in the eyes of posterity than the successes of a Thalberg have counted. Nor does this erase the fact that - outside of a handle of self blinding die-hards on low-circulation internet sites - enthousiasm for Shostakovich is fading - as enthousiasm for Menotti as faded - and as enthousiasm for Arvo Part will fade. Making it easy does not work over the only run that matters to serious, self-respecting artists - the long run that is.

The Lisa Batiashvilli CD included in those photos has got to be the single most awful CD I have bought in years; in fact it is the worst CD I have bought since the Credo CD also involving Arvo Part: why must Salonen so often be involved with the worst the recording industry has to offer these days? What kind of public does he expect to attract with low-quality CD's like that? Is it worth it?

The most striking thing is that you think that this statement, for which you have provided no quantitative evidence at all, would convince anyone of anything.  In 1970 it was a milestone that the Berlin Philharmonic had recorded a Shostakovich symphony.  Today we have a dozen different symphony cycles to choose from with more in progress, and at least a dozen string quartet cycles.  How is that consistent with interest "fading?"

Offline Brewski

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Re: Is Shostakovich fading?
« Reply #45 on: April 22, 2011, 10:44:21 AM »
Yes, I see no evidence of "fading," either. If anything, performances of his works are only increasing, as are recordings. Even if I wanted to listen to nothing but Shostakovich, I doubt I could get around to hearing all the CDs currently available--never mind ones that you could find out of print from say, the last five years or so.

--Bruce
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Bulldog

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Re: Is Shostakovich fading?
« Reply #46 on: April 22, 2011, 11:14:38 AM »
There are more mediocrities out there then there are quality people; therefore simple-minded second rates like Shostakovich get more recordings in the short run than great composers like Boulez or Lutoslawski or Dutilleux or Messiaen. But this counts for no more in the eyes of posterity than the successes of a Thalberg have counted. Nor does this erase the fact that - outside of a handle of self blinding die-hards on low-circulation internet sites - enthousiasm for Shostakovich is fading -

You keep saying that Shostakovich is fading but offer no evidence to support your premise.  It's just wishful thinking on your part, and it would be a good idea for you to stop acting the fool.

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: Is Shostakovich fading?
« Reply #47 on: April 22, 2011, 11:20:08 AM »
...it would be a good idea for you to stop acting the fool.

Toucan seems intent on proving he has a bird brain  ;D

Yes, I see no evidence of "fading," either. If anything, performances of his works are only increasing...

In my area too I've noticed an increase in performances, orchestral and chamber. The Mandelring Quartet's recent cycle, for example

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Scarpia

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Re: Is Shostakovich fading?
« Reply #48 on: April 22, 2011, 11:22:14 AM »
Toucan seems intent on proving he has a bird brain  ;D

In another thread he points out that the credibility of his statements is bolstered by the fact that he has three Masters degrees and two PhDs.   ???

Offline Brewski

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Re: Is Shostakovich fading?
« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2011, 11:24:04 AM »
...and in a few weeks I'm hearing Alan (toledobass) in the Toledo Symphony Orchestra do the Sixth Symphony at Carnegie--can't wait for that.

--Bruce
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Philoctetes

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Re: Is Shostakovich fading?
« Reply #50 on: April 22, 2011, 11:33:08 AM »
In another thread he points out that the credibility of his statements is bolstered by the fact that he has three Masters degrees and two PhDs.   ???

Not to question, but honestly... Nigga, please?!

Drasko

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Re: Is Shostakovich fading?
« Reply #51 on: April 22, 2011, 11:45:20 AM »
...and in a few weeks I'm hearing Alan (toledobass) in the Toledo Symphony Orchestra do the Sixth Symphony at Carnegie--can't wait for that.

--Bruce

.... while week ago Riccardo Muti (hardly a Shostakovich partisan) brought the Chicago Symphony to Carnegie Hall with guess what - Shostakovich 5th.

Since I can't see any decrease in recordings and concert programming and Toucan isn't offering anything to back his claim I'd guess that his intentions lay elsewhere. Maybe in starting the very trend, if he posts about Shostakovich's fading at enough forums, blogs, newsgroups, someone is going to google it, take it as information rather than opinion and transmit it further .... and in few years who knows what can snowball out of it.  8) 

Offline Brewski

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Re: Is Shostakovich fading?
« Reply #52 on: April 22, 2011, 11:47:39 AM »
.... while week ago Riccardo Muti (hardly a Shostakovich partisan) brought the Chicago Symphony to Carnegie Hall with guess what - Shostakovich 5th.


Forgot to mention that (and I was at that concert). But you're absolutely right: Muti isn't exactly "Mr. DSCH," so for him to do that piece says something.

--Bruce
"Do you realize that we're meteorites; almost as soon as we're born, we have to disappear?"

~Iannis Xenakis

Twitter: @BruceHodgesNY

Offline Luke

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Re: Is Shostakovich fading?
« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2011, 12:00:02 PM »
Since I can't see any decrease in recordings and concert programming and Toucan isn't offering anything to back his claim I'd guess that his intentions lay elsewhere. Maybe in starting the very trend, if he posts about Shostakovich's fading at enough forums, blogs, newsgroups, someone is going to google it, take it as information rather than opinion and transmit it further .... and in few years who knows what can snowball out of it.  8)

It's not working yet, anyway. Put 'Shostakovich fading popularity' into google and you get this thread, first, with, as the quoted text, someone-or-other's complete rejection of Toucan's proposition, and then, after that, a bunch of pages discussing the extraordinary rise in the popularity of his music.

Anyway, I can't for the life of me imagine why Toucan play at that game   ;D  ;D
« Last Edit: April 22, 2011, 12:01:53 PM by Luke »

Offline Two-Tone

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Re: Is Shostakovich fading?
« Reply #54 on: April 22, 2011, 12:36:14 PM »
As nasty as soviet bureaucrats, the pro-shosty lynch mob. Makes sense. I will give up all my recordings of Shostakovich for one song by Gustav Mahler I do not care which one.

Scarpia

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Re: Is Shostakovich fading?
« Reply #55 on: April 22, 2011, 12:37:39 PM »
As nasty as soviet bureaucrats, the pro-shosty lynch mob. Makes sense. I will give up all my recordings of Shostakovich for one song by Gustav Mahler I do not care which one.

Why give them up.  Sell them on e-bay and make a bundle.  Demand appears to be high!  :)

Offline Two-Tone

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Re: Is Shostakovich fading?
« Reply #56 on: April 22, 2011, 01:02:14 PM »
hmmm, wonderful idea. hoard them now before interest wanes, lol.

Scarpia

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Re: Is Shostakovich fading?
« Reply #57 on: April 22, 2011, 01:03:23 PM »
hmmm, wonderful idea. hoard them now before interest wanes, lol.

You've got a lot to learn about finance.

Offline Brian

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Re: Is Shostakovich fading?
« Reply #58 on: April 22, 2011, 01:05:37 PM »
...and in a few weeks I'm hearing Alan (toledobass) in the Toledo Symphony Orchestra do the Sixth Symphony at Carnegie--can't wait for that.

--Bruce

Oh, man! The Sixth live was the first Shostakovich I ever heard - I was something like 16 and even then I knew something was up. Haven't seen it done live since, but would absolutely die to.

Not to question, but honestly... Nigga, please?!

I feel guilty about how loudly I laughed at this.

Offline Brian

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Re: Is Shostakovich fading?
« Reply #59 on: April 22, 2011, 01:06:26 PM »
hmmm, wonderful idea. hoard them now before interest wanes, lol.

My best friend and I are 21 and we plan on being avid Shostakovich lovers for 60+ years. Your retirement plan is safe.