Author Topic: Aperghis In the Round  (Read 3222 times)

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Offline opaquer

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Re: Aperghis In the Round
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2017, 02:21:51 PM »
Nervous energy is the watchword of the day.

I had been thinking of an Aperghis-a-thon,... though I have not given in to his vocal side so much, so I don't have all the famous vocal solos and all.

I recommend the 'Teeter Totter' disc first only because it has two large ensemble works as representation. Or, go whole hog on the 'Avie le tempete' or 'Hamletmachine'(?)...


Maybe think of him as starting off somewhat where Xenakis vocals end... uh, maybe not?


I basically lift him up as the ultimate in hip self styled freelance artist trying to incorporate all.... maybe a bit BA Zimmermann in a French, more hedonistic, bent?

In the Library right now, he's next to Late Kagel, Radulescu, Mache, Hespos, Terzakis, Tiensuu,... all the more individualistic of the 2nd Wave of High Modernism Composers,... but there is some of the IX aesthetic I think, but more "human" based instead of "mathematically" based...


Schnebel?,... is that the hilarious 'Maulwerk'? Gotta check it out!! I have Schnebel's SQs on NEOS, found him solidly in line with all the standard greats there... but I think he has a wider reputation as a Kagelesque vocal innovator,... check out 'Maulwerk'!! :laugh:


Yeah, vocal music is always hit or miss for me. Opera is a touchy subject too for me, it's very rarely that you'll see me enjoying an opera that isn't "avantgarde"...maybe?...

I can't stand that "la la la la la" soprano stuff or the bass/baritones with the "ahhhhh..." stuff either. But somehow I love love love the Mahler song cycles....  :-[

Anyhow back to Aperghis, I've so far heard the following: (from youtube of course)

(bits of) Recitations
Avis De Tempe-te
Sept Crimes de l'amour
Anakrousis
Champ-contrechamp
Kryptogramma

And downloaded a bunch of his scores from his website   ;)

Interesting you bring up our god Iannis, I hear his influence but Aperghis does sound very different from Xenakis.
There are different Xenakian coloring's sprinkled over some of the works (especially ensemble and orchestral), from the limited amount of music I've heard from him. But I don't yet hear the resemblance in the vocal work.

I do though, hear a little resemblance of Kagel's Stattstheater and Dressur, though the theater side of Kagel isn't actually my favorite. Kagel's theater work is VERY entertaining and amusing (in the best possible way) regardless.


Yeah, I still don't know what to think of Schnebel's Maulwerke. It's not the most "out there" kind of thing I've heard but it is very "weird" to me, perhaps it's the physicality of it, I don't know. I do remember finding some of his chamber works to be palatable but I'm still not familiar with it though...

Offline snyprrr

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Re: Aperghis In the Round
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2017, 03:56:32 PM »

Yeah, vocal music is always hit or miss for me. Opera is a touchy subject too for me, it's very rarely that you'll see me enjoying an opera that isn't "avantgarde"...maybe?...

I can't stand that "la la la la la" soprano stuff or the bass/baritones with the "ahhhhh..." stuff either. But somehow I love love love the Mahler song cycles....  :-[

Anyhow back to Aperghis, I've so far heard the following: (from youtube of course)

(bits of) Recitations
Avis De Tempe-te
Sept Crimes de l'amour
Anakrousis
Champ-contrechamp
Kryptogramma

And downloaded a bunch of his scores from his website   ;)

Interesting you bring up our god Iannis, I hear his influence but Aperghis does sound very different from Xenakis.
There are different Xenakian coloring's sprinkled over some of the works (especially ensemble and orchestral), from the limited amount of music I've heard from him. But I don't yet hear the resemblance in the vocal work.

I do though, hear a little resemblance of Kagel's Stattstheater and Dressur, though the theater side of Kagel isn't actually my favorite. Kagel's theater work is VERY entertaining and amusing (in the best possible way) regardless.


Yeah, I still don't know what to think of Schnebel's Maulwerke. It's not the most "out there" kind of thing I've heard but it is very "weird" to me, perhaps it's the physicality of it, I don't know. I do remember finding some of his chamber works to be palatable but I'm still not familiar with it though...

Marc Monnet also? for Frenchy IX.....
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Offline Brewski

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Re: [{]...Aperghis... '("&")' ...Mache...[}]
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2017, 09:08:26 PM »
Bruce is the only one around here who I think has expressed an interest in Recitations. I can say that after this current disc, I need more than one solo voice to please me. Well,... you know...

It appears that in your clip Recitations is being performed by a group of 'one'. Like I said, unless I was dating one of the singers, it's not my cup of tea (at least a violin,... or something).


Completely missed this, but then, I don't see every post on this board, so...

BIG fan of Récitations, but that said, it's a piece that you really have to hear and see. E.g., one of them asks the singer to drop pages of music on the floor. When I saw this at an intimate home recital, I reached down to pick up the dropped music, and the singer silently motioned me to sit down -- embarrassing! I thought her dropping the music was an accident, but no, was part of the work.

Last Aperghis I saw was online, Luna Park, which is fantastic. I saw it live, but here it is on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biTGIRROgZA

--Bruce



Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire.
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Twitter: @BruceHodgesNY

Offline opaquer

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This thread needs more promotion (& other things)
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2017, 02:11:56 PM »
Completely missed this, but then, I don't see every post on this board, so...

BIG fan of Récitations, but that said, it's a piece that you really have to hear and see. E.g., one of them asks the singer to drop pages of music on the floor. When I saw this at an intimate home recital, I reached down to pick up the dropped music, and the singer silently motioned me to sit down -- embarrassing! I thought her dropping the music was an accident, but no, was part of the work.

Last Aperghis I saw was online, Luna Park, which is fantastic. I saw it live, but here it is on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biTGIRROgZA

--Bruce

Thank you greatly Bruce!!!  :D
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 02:14:46 PM by Thatfabulousalien »

Offline jessop

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Re: Aperghis In the Round
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2017, 02:54:21 PM »
Ok I just discovered that it is indeed possible to download scores from his website..............I guess I will be doing that now!

Offline opaquer

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Re: Aperghis In the Round
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2017, 02:57:59 PM »
Ok I just discovered that it is indeed possible to download scores from his website..............I guess I will be doing that now!

Yeah, I've done that. I don't know if it's just me, but I kind of expected his scores to look more like Stockhausen or even Cage in appearance but they seem more simple.... ???

It's not his complete scores though, so there would be more I don't know about yet

Offline jessop

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Re: Aperghis In the Round
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2017, 03:12:58 PM »
Yeah, I've done that. I don't know if it's just me, but I kind of expected his scores to look more like Stockhausen or even Cage in appearance but they seem more simple.... ???

It's not his complete scores though, so there would be more I don't know about yet

Making scores look complex is the most stupid thing a composer can do imo. Aperghis gets exactly what he wants with the simplest most readable notation and that is what works best in any setting really. The biggest reason why a performer would choose not to play certain works is if a piece is notated confusingly.......*coughmessiaencough*.......I admire Aperghis for his clarity!

Offline opaquer

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Re: Aperghis In the Round
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2017, 03:26:08 PM »
Making scores look complex is the most stupid thing a composer can do imo. Aperghis gets exactly what he wants with the simplest most readable notation and that is what works best in any setting really. The biggest reason why a performer would choose not to play certain works is if a piece is notated confusingly.......*coughmessiaencough*.......I admire Aperghis for his clarity!

Messiaen??  ??? What Messiaen are you referring to?
every Messiaen score I've seen has been absolutely straight-forward.... :-\

Is it the slow tempos??  :-[

Offline jessop

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Re: Aperghis In the Round
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2017, 03:31:50 PM »
Messiaen??  ??? What Messiaen are you referring to?
every Messiaen score I've seen has been absolutely straight-forward.... :-\

Is it the slow tempos??  :-[
Hahahaha, I am surprised you are shocked though! Messiaen is well known for devising a new harmonic language based on his modes of limited transposition. In very many cases his music would be far easier to read if the accidentals were re-spelt. From the perspective of a composer, it makes perfect sense why Messiaen does what he does, but from a performer's perspective.......well...... :laugh: it is probably the main reason his music isn't performed as often as Shostakovich and some other extremely famous contemporaries.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 03:35:00 PM by jessop »

Offline opaquer

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Re: Aperghis In the Round
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2017, 03:40:55 PM »
Hahahaha, I am surprised you are shocked though! Messiaen is well known for devising a new harmonic language based on his modes of limited transposition. In very many cases his music would be far easier to read if the accidentals were re-spelt. From the perspective of a composer, it makes perfect sense why Messiaen does what he does, but from a performer's perspective.......well...... :laugh: it is probably the main reason his music isn't performed as often as Shostakovich and some other extremely famous contemporaries.

So you don't mean rhythmically or notation-related but more harmonic/melodic? ok then, I guess I see what you mean

Offline jessop

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Re: Aperghis In the Round
« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2017, 03:50:24 PM »
So you don't mean rhythmically or notation-related but more harmonic/melodic? ok then, I guess I see what you mean
Nah, his rhythms are super clear.

Offline opaquer

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Re: Aperghis In the Round
« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2017, 03:54:53 PM »
Nah, his rhythms are super clear.

Lol, you had me worried for a moment  :P


Offline opaquer

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Re: Aperghis In the Round
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2017, 07:32:55 PM »
I'm back and Recitations is really interesting. I keep transcribing the rhythms in my head, it's quite a beautiful cycle too :)

Offline opaquer

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Re: Aperghis In the Round
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2017, 03:26:58 AM »
I'm listening to Recitations yet again, I'm starting to love it.

There is something about it that is giving me ideas of a way to apply a concept that I've have for quite a while, into vocal music.

These pieces (Recitations) are quite overwhelming and I know what Snyprrr means in the original post about it.

Return to this thread Snyprrr, I need your mentoring in all things Aperghian!  8)

Offline snyprrr

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Re: Aperghis In the Round
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2017, 08:25:51 AM »
I'm listening to Recitations yet again, I'm starting to love it.

There is something about it that is giving me ideas of a way to apply a concept that I've have for quite a while, into vocal music.

These pieces (Recitations) are quite overwhelming and I know what Snyprrr means in the original post about it.

Return to this thread Snyprrr, I need your mentoring in all things Aperghian!  8)

I can't break free of the Igor at the moment... and I'm definitely not ready for Avant Vocals, lol... more coffee...
Rat Poison is 99% Good Food, so Follow the Money

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Offline Brewski

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Re: Aperghis In the Round
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2017, 12:06:18 PM »
I'm listening to Recitations yet again, I'm starting to love it.

There is something about it that is giving me ideas of a way to apply a concept that I've have for quite a while, into vocal music.

These pieces (Recitations) are quite overwhelming and I know what Snyprrr means in the original post about it.

Return to this thread Snyprrr, I need your mentoring in all things Aperghian!  8)

Check out some of the YouTube versions of Recitations -- there are many, and these little gems are much better when you can SEE the performers. Many of them involve ordinary sounds such as coughing, clearing the throat, etc., which can sound like accidents (but of course, they're not).

One of them has the singer dropping music on the floor. When I saw it performed, it was for just a small group of people in the singer's home. I was sitting on the front row, and when she dropped the score I reached down to retrieve it. She grinned at me and shook her head -- and then the dropped music became a repeated thing, like a little fugue. Great fun, hilarious, educational.

Just watched this video of Nos. 8 and 11 for the first time by a singer new to me, Sarah Maria Sun -- wow!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itXUgBIyoGA

--Bruce
Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire.
     ~ Gustav Mahler

Twitter: @BruceHodgesNY

Offline opaquer

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Re: Aperghis In the Round
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2017, 04:01:24 PM »
I can't break free of the Igor at the moment... and I'm definitely not ready for Avant Vocals, lol... more coffee...

On with the Stravinsky then!  :D


Offline opaquer

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MACK THE KNIFE
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2017, 04:05:35 PM »
Check out some of the YouTube versions of Recitations -- there are many, and these little gems are much better when you can SEE the performers. Many of them involve ordinary sounds such as coughing, clearing the throat, etc., which can sound like accidents (but of course, they're not).

One of them has the singer dropping music on the floor. When I saw it performed, it was for just a small group of people in the singer's home. I was sitting on the front row, and when she dropped the score I reached down to retrieve it. She grinned at me and shook her head -- and then the dropped music became a repeated thing, like a little fugue. Great fun, hilarious, educational.

Just watched this video of Nos. 8 and 11 for the first time by a singer new to me, Sarah Maria Sun -- wow!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itXUgBIyoGA

--Bruce

It'd certainly be a hard piece/cycle to understand for the first time without any context  :laugh:

Yes, I've seen the Youtube videos (there is also a recital of the cycle, in longer videos too)

I would love to see the score!!, it's got very fascinating rhythms  ;) and an approach to contrasts of timbres that are captivating but also slightly scary (halfway through, there is screaming and all  ??? ).

Aperghis is providing me with some very cool and (for the first time I say it) "odd" music to engage with  8)

Offline opaquer

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Re: Aperghis In the Round
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2017, 02:19:30 AM »
I'm back in with the Aperghis again  :D

Offline snyprrr

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Re: Aperghis In the Round
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2017, 08:21:52 AM »
I'm back in with the Aperghis again  :D

Teeter-Totter


I am by no means prepared to Aperghis-ize at the moment... I played for 3 1/2 hours straight at last night's gig, no breaks, no post-show luvin' :(...
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