Author Topic: Missing Members  (Read 316784 times)

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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #900 on: January 16, 2015, 06:22:17 AM »
I agree, except for the last bit as I explain in point 4 below, and want to add a few random observations.

1. It was not Florestan who first objected to an avatar, nor was it Florestan who demanded an avatar be removed. That was Discobolus in both cases.

2. In no way is the T shirt an incitement to anything. Even if, and I do not grant this, it were an expression of xenophobia or bigotry that would still not make it an incitement. Not even close.

3. I support Discobolus's right to blaspheme and partly approve of his having done so (I will explain why in a moment). I do though think it sad that rather than defying the terrorists and bullies by attacking only their symbols he decided to treat exactly the same way those religions which can be safely mocked already, and whose adherents do not kill you for mocking. It's a false equivalence that misses the point. Nonetheless I would not have demanded he change his avatar.

4 As for when blasphemy is a good thing. When it is a gesture of defiance and the assertion of freedom against violent attacks.  I think that when a right is under attack it must be defended and prohibitions defied.  The de facto prohibition here is on depictions of Mohammed. So that is the blaphemous act which answers the terrorists. Charlie Hebdo did that on its latest cover. Discobolus did not do that. Posting a caricature of Jews when the terrorists killed Jews is not really what is called for.


Excellent points, thank you.
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Offline EigenUser

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #901 on: January 16, 2015, 06:28:08 AM »
There's a reason why I don't partake in political discussions here: they don't lead to anything fulfilling. Music is my one true love in this life, so in joining this forum, I came here to discuss music and only music. I will reply in threads like Greg's Failed Experiment thread because I like reading about other people's love lives and the encouragement I get from other members, but, alas, I'm here for the music. I have no interest in political or religious discussions.
My view exactly. I have no problem in giving a political view of mine, but I'm not going to argue it. I figure that if someone already has a differing opinion (regardless of how 'incorrect' I might find it), I'm not going to change their mind. Even if I did, it isn't like they'd ever admit it.



A classic xkcd cartoon, and something I try and avoid. Of course, if they are wrong about music, well, that's a different story...

:D :laugh: ;)

BTW, I'll miss the photoshopped Boulez avatar...

Also, what happened to Monkey Greg?!
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Offline The new erato

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #902 on: January 16, 2015, 06:34:18 AM »
I have no problem in giving a political view of mine, but I'm not going to argue it.
Me too, and I've already given my opinion. Letting the terrorists make this a less useful and enjoyable site by quarrelling about it, will only give them one more (albeit exremely minor) victory. Everybody would be well advised to consider that. Nuff' said.

Online North Star

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #903 on: January 16, 2015, 06:34:58 AM »
My view exactly. I have no problem in giving a political view of mine, but I'm not going to argue it. I figure that if someone already has a differing opinion (regardless of how 'incorrect' I might find it), I'm not going to change their mind. Even if I did, it isn't like they'd ever admit it.

A classic xkcd cartoon, and something I try and avoid. Of course, if they are wrong about music, well, that's a different story...

:D :laugh: ;)

BTW, I'll miss the photoshopped Boulez avatar...

Also, what happened to Monkey Greg?!
Agreed with everything. Oh, and if someone is wrong about photography!  :P

Perhaps Greg is still on holiday?
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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #904 on: January 16, 2015, 06:40:14 AM »
I find the Charlie Martell avatar far more offensive than Discobolus avatarm, for what it's worth. I think this site anyway has much to loose by such posturing . I strongly support MIs view, and would prefer such discussions to be kept away from this site.

I would like nothing better than to delete every political and religious thread which anyone starts. Shall we get a mandate for that?

Our philosophy here, quite unlike how it was recently portrayed, is to let discussion happen. I can't imagine I am the only one here who sees the irony in having an advocate for free speech demand that anyone who doesn't agree with him should be censored? Am I? 

In any case, anyone here is free to come and go as they choose. It is completely irrational to suggest that an inanimate establishment, that is, a forum, maintains a political stance. The variety of beliefs of the people here is staggering, and no one of them holds sway. I look at attempts to gain advantage by challenging the system as being corrupt are nothing more than bullying, and it won't be tolerated.

This discussion doesn't need to continue in this thread, which has a purpose of its own.

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Offline Moonfish

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #905 on: January 16, 2015, 06:42:44 AM »
I find the Charlie Martell avatar far more offensive than Discobolus avatarm, for what it's worth. I think this site anyway has much to loose by such posturing . I strongly support MIs view, and would prefer such discussions to be kept away from this site.

I agree with your Erato!  I am simply sad that we now have lost Discobolus' voice in the music forum.  :(
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Offline Moonfish

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #906 on: January 16, 2015, 06:45:43 AM »
My view exactly. I have no problem in giving a political view of mine, but I'm not going to argue it. I figure that if someone already has a differing opinion (regardless of how 'incorrect' I might find it), I'm not going to change their mind. Even if I did, it isn't like they'd ever admit it.



A classic xkcd cartoon, and something I try and avoid. Of course, if they are wrong about music, well, that's a different story...

:D :laugh: ;)

BTW, I'll miss the photoshopped Boulez avatar...

Also, what happened to Monkey Greg?!

Great cartoon Eigenuser! Unfortunately, one that comes close to the truth......
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Offline mc ukrneal

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #907 on: January 16, 2015, 06:50:31 AM »


There is something perfect about this cartoon. It somehow releases the anger one has when acting this way. Thank you.
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #908 on: January 16, 2015, 06:50:36 AM »
I would like nothing better than to delete every political and religious thread which anyone starts. Shall we get a mandate for that?


I vote No. I especially vote No in the wake of Discobolus's petulant and intellectually bankrupt attacks on another member, because it will be hard to see this as anything else but endorsing them. Further I think the remaining posters here are mature enough to keep even heated disagreements from escalating to bogus charges of racism or incitement to violence.

Besides no political or religious argument can be half as odious to me as praise of La Mer  >:D :laugh: :laugh:

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #909 on: January 16, 2015, 06:52:35 AM »
Besides no political or religious argument can be half as odious to me as praise of La Mer  >:D :laugh: :laugh:

I strongly disagree, but I stand by your right to opine.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
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His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline Moonfish

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #910 on: January 16, 2015, 06:53:54 AM »
I vote No. I especially vote No in the wake of Discobolus's petulant and intellectually bankrupt attacks on another member, because it will be hard to see this as anything else but endorsing them. Further I think the remaining posters here are mature enough to keep even heated disagreements from escalating to bogus charges of racism or incitement to violence.

Besides no political or religious argument can be half as odious to me as praise of La Mer  >:D :laugh: :laugh:

Why is it that people don't go nuts in the music discussions (apart from Ken of course), while the diner creates firestorms of stupidity?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 06:57:17 AM by Moonfish »
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #911 on: January 16, 2015, 06:55:11 AM »
Maybe the idea is that firestorms of stupidity are perhaps unavoidable on the InterTubes, so let's at least contain them in the Diner . . . .
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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Boston MA
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[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
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His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline springrite

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #912 on: January 16, 2015, 06:59:34 AM »
I strongly disagree, but I stand by your right to opine.

I stand by his right to opine but not your right to strongly disagree…  :P
Do what I must do, and let what must happen happen.

Online Sergeant Rock

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #913 on: January 16, 2015, 06:59:56 AM »
Why is it that people don't go nuts in the music discussions (apart from Ken of course), while the diner creates fire storms of stupidity?

Once upon a time people here did go nuts discussing music (M forever was usually at the center of the storms). His first banishment caused a mass exodus. We lost many valuable members.

Sarge
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he was as f*cked-up as you are."
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #914 on: January 16, 2015, 07:01:47 AM »
I stand by his right to opine but not your right to strongly disagree…  :P

I shall disagree, even if you do not stand by me!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
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[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
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His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline springrite

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #915 on: January 16, 2015, 07:03:01 AM »
Once upon a time people here did go nuts discussing music (M forever was usually at the center of the storms). His first banishment caused a mass exodus. We lost many valuable members.

Sarge

Correct. And his presence also caused a mass exodus and some of whom returned upon his banishment. I hold no opinion on this and have no figure to show which number is bigger. But there is no doubt that those who left after M's banishment are some of our more valuable members.
Do what I must do, and let what must happen happen.

Online North Star

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #916 on: January 16, 2015, 07:04:35 AM »
Once upon a time people here did go nuts discussing music (M forever was usually at the center of the storms). His first banishment caused a mass exodus. We lost many valuable members.

Sarge
Did that loss have a negative effect, then?
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #917 on: January 16, 2015, 07:05:11 AM »
Sometimes, even on the Internet, there is no absolutely good option.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
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[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline Henk

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #918 on: January 16, 2015, 07:05:30 AM »
Further I think the remaining posters here are mature enough to keep even heated disagreements from escalating to bogus charges of racism or incitement to violence.

+1
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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #919 on: January 16, 2015, 07:07:19 AM »
Once upon a time people here did go nuts discussing music (M forever was usually at the center of the storms). His first banishment caused a mass exodus. We lost many valuable members.

Sarge

But he was not banned for his opinions on music. He was banned because of his absolutely deplorable abuse of people who didn't agree with him, or who weren't as knowledgeable as him. His 3 year grace period came to an end with no sign of any sort of rehabilitation.

Lest we forget and go on a Poor M crusade...  0:)

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