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toucan

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« on: October 26, 2011, 07:31:49 PM »
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Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

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Re: Arab spring or Islamic terror?
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2011, 09:25:51 PM »
What does that make them look like, all those who, starting with the self-proclaimed instigator of the Revolution in Libya, Bernard-Henri Levy, were swooning over a new dawn of democracy, justice and progress in the Arab world: self-deluded fools?

You just answered your own question.

As for Levy, he's always good for a few laughs. Does anyone still take him seriously?
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

Offline Florestan

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Re: Arab spring or Islamic terror?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2011, 12:50:45 AM »
And could it be that the heros (sic) who appear to have raped Kadhafi to death will turn out to be even worse than he was?

The abominable and barbarous murder of Gaddafi made me puke. No man deserves that no matter what he might have done when in power.
“I compose music because I must give expression to my feelings, just as I talk because I must give utterance to my thoughts.”  --- Rachmaninoff

Offline Todd

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Re: Arab spring or Islamic terror?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2011, 06:38:11 AM »
I just wonder what the new, "democratic" regimes will bring.  If they establish liberal societies based on the rule of law and extend rights to women, religious minorities, and so on, great.  Hell, if they suppress their own people without supporting international terrorism and engaging in war, I can live with that, too.  However, what if a few years down the road there is another sizeable war between various Arab nations against Israel?  Whatever goodwill the US has managed to foster in the region will be wiped away by the inevitable support for Israel.  Perhaps European leaders can play it more shrewdly and support Arab nations if a war erupts.  Maybe I just worry too much.  Maybe the new regimes love peace above all.  We'll get to know soon enough.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Everything dies - Alien Bounty Hunter, The X-Files

Everyone dies - William Barr, United States Attorney General

Offline Florestan

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Re: Arab spring or Islamic terror?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2011, 06:41:07 AM »
I just wonder what the new, "democratic" regimes will bring.  If they establish liberal societies based on the rule of law and extend rights to women, religious minorities, and so on, great. 

I cannot imagine you being so naive as to really hope for that.  ;D
“I compose music because I must give expression to my feelings, just as I talk because I must give utterance to my thoughts.”  --- Rachmaninoff

Offline Todd

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Re: Arab spring or Islamic terror?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2011, 06:44:27 AM »
I cannot imagine you being so naive as to really hope for that.


Hope for, sure.  Expect, well . . .
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Everything dies - Alien Bounty Hunter, The X-Files

Everyone dies - William Barr, United States Attorney General

Bulldog

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Re: Arab spring or Islamic terror?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2011, 08:02:55 AM »
The abominable and barbarous murder of Gaddafi made me puke. No man deserves that no matter what he might have done when in power.

I think he got what he deserved. 

Mn Dave

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Re: Arab spring or Islamic terror?
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2011, 12:25:42 PM »
The abominable and barbarous murder of Gaddafi made me puke. No man deserves that no matter what he might have done when in power.

Of course not.

Mn Dave

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Re: Arab spring or Islamic terror?
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2011, 12:26:37 PM »
I think he got what he deserved.

Live like a jerk, die like a jerk.

snyprrr

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Re: Arab spring or Islamic terror?
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2011, 09:04:24 PM »
Mossad

Look for them in your grocer's freezer! ;)... or dressed as an arab terrorist!! :o






Oh, and let's not forget the 'plot' to kill the Saudi ambassador,... yea, the muzzies make great patsys, that's for sure.

How many nukes does Izzie have?



"...and all the armies of the world were gathered against Jerusalem to make war against it..."

whaaat? where have I heard that? Self fulfilling, or not, behold your future.


Surely the English speaking peoples are an also ran









oh yes, it's dropping like dew!

snyprrr

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Re: Arab spring or Islamic terror?
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2011, 09:05:52 PM »
Leave the brown people alone.

Offline Florestan

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Re: Arab spring or Islamic terror?
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2011, 12:52:34 AM »
I think he got what he deserved.

Had he been assasinated while in power, I would have agreed. Had he been subjected to a fair trial by a legally constituted court of law, in which his crimes be clearly and beyond any doubt proved and exposed and subsequently condemned to death, I would have agreed as well. But with barbarity and savagery against a helpless man no longer holding any power whatsoever I cannot agree.
“I compose music because I must give expression to my feelings, just as I talk because I must give utterance to my thoughts.”  --- Rachmaninoff

Offline Florestan

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Re: Arab spring or Islamic terror?
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2011, 12:57:50 AM »

Hope for, sure.  Expect, well . . .

Given that no Arab country (except Lebanon) ever had "liberal societies based on the rule of law and extend rights to women, religious minorities, and so on"  even to hope is naive.  ;D
“I compose music because I must give expression to my feelings, just as I talk because I must give utterance to my thoughts.”  --- Rachmaninoff

Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

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Re: Arab spring or Islamic terror?
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2011, 01:46:50 AM »
Had he been assasinated while in power, I would have agreed. Had he been subjected to a fair trial by a legally constituted court of law, in which his crimes be clearly and beyond any doubt proved and exposed and subsequently condemned to death, I would have agreed as well. But with barbarity and savagery against a helpless man no longer holding any power whatsoever I cannot agree.

Yes, it augurs poorly for Libya's future as a law-based polity.

Just wondering: what was your reaction to the killing of Ceausescu?
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

Offline Florestan

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Re: Arab spring or Islamic terror?
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2011, 03:47:31 AM »
Just wondering: what was your reaction to the killing of Ceausescu?

Back then I applauded it: I was 18 and hated him and his regime so much that I couldn't hide my satisfaction. I realized quickly, though, that he had to be silenced because he knew too much about the leaders of the National Salvation Front and their connections with KGB. But I think there is a big difference between him and Gaddafi: he was sentenced to death by a military court (in a mockery of a trial, but at least the formalities were met)  and shot; he was not humiliated and brutalized the way Gaddafi was.

Bottom line: do tyrants deserve to die? certainly yes; do they deserve to die the horrendous death of Gaddafi? certainly not.
“I compose music because I must give expression to my feelings, just as I talk because I must give utterance to my thoughts.”  --- Rachmaninoff

cilgwyn

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Re: Arab spring or Islamic terror?
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2011, 04:01:25 AM »
I do get the feeling it's one rule for 'them',another rule for us. I remember seeing the footage of Gaddafi on the internet & thinking,'Well.they won't show that on the news!' How wrong I was! Usually they're too squeamish to show us even the slightest spot of blood,just in case it puts us off our food. Live coverage of wars in Iraq & elsewhere,but never any bodies falling to the floor or corpses. This time it was like blood lust all around. The news channels couldn't get enough. In fact,I think the only bit they balked at were the shots of Gaddafi being 'b*******! :o
Why the bloodlust? Were they trying to tell us something? Like,'Hey,look what happens to you,if you cross Nato?'

Bulldog

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Re: Arab spring or Islamic terror?
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2011, 10:25:54 AM »
Had he been assasinated while in power, I would have agreed. Had he been subjected to a fair trial by a legally constituted court of law, in which his crimes be clearly and beyond any doubt proved and exposed and subsequently condemned to death, I would have agreed as well. But with barbarity and savagery against a helpless man no longer holding any power whatsoever I cannot agree.

I figured he would be killed when found; game over for that piece of garbage. 8)

Mn Dave

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Re: Arab spring or Islamic terror?
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2011, 10:28:20 AM »
Why the bloodlust? Were they trying to tell us something? Like,'Hey,look what happens to you,if you cross Nato?'

It seems we're becoming brutal...again.

cilgwyn

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Re: Arab spring or Islamic terror?
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2011, 11:31:05 AM »
I'm just intrigued by the news channels use of the footage. I don't remember seeing mobile phone footage of Saddam Hussein's last moments on the tv. It just makes me wonder what the tv news moghuls might have in store for us next?
Also,IF Tony Blair ever gets lynched will they show that?
And will his captors b***** his a***?