Author Topic: Unpopular Opinions  (Read 153562 times)

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Offline Christo

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2420 on: August 11, 2017, 04:05:07 AM »
Lehar, like Strauss, was of Jewish descent,

This is incorrect. Lehar was not of Jewish descent. And I agree with Jo that having a Jewish grandfather who converted to Roman Catholicism can hardly qualify someone for a "Jewish descent".
Again, I'm not talking about us, I'm talking about the Nazis - for whom he would have counted as 'Jewish' anyhow, the more so since Johann II married a Jewish woman. IIRC, there was some cleaning done of the archives in Vienna after the 1938 Anschluss.
music is not only an `entertainment, nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Offline Florestan

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2421 on: August 11, 2017, 04:10:54 AM »
https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/apr/04/vanessathorpe.theobserver

Hitler, who is believed to have said: 'I decide who is Jewish.'

That's also incorrect. It was actually said by Karl Lueger

Again, I'm not talking about us, I'm talking about the Nazis - for whom he would have counted as 'Jewish' anyhow, the more so since Johann II married a Jewish woman. IIRC, there was some cleaning done of the archives in Vienna after the 1938 Anschluss.

I'll give you Strauss,  but Lehar was not Jewish.
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Offline amw

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2422 on: August 11, 2017, 04:17:12 AM »
I believe the Nazis would call them Achteljuden or some similar term.

Halakha is fairly clear that you need to be born to a Jewish mother, or convert to Judaism to be a Jew. But it's definitely true that having any kind of Jewish ancestor, however remote and non-matrilineal, or a spouse with the same, could get you in trouble in Germany. I'm not sure if there is a good term for people who faced anti-semitism without being themselves Jewish but I'm happy to consider them honorary Jews even if a conservative or orthodox rabbi wouldn't >.>

Offline Christo

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2423 on: August 11, 2017, 04:21:46 AM »
I'll give you Strauss,  but Lehar was not Jewish.
I was only thinking of the Strauss clan - and let Lehar (did I once see his house in Slovakia? I guess so) slip in because one of these popular articles mentioned him as well.
I think the story of the forgery of the Vienna records of their Jewish descent is told here: http://www.johann-strauss.at/wissen/faelschung_e.shtml

'The troublesome Strauss entry [in the Marriage register] had been removed ... and Strauss music, which is so German, as the Nazi paper Der Strmer put it, could continue to be broadcast by all radio stations in the Reich. In order to achieve this noble end there was, in terms of the opinion of the day, nothing wrong in perpetrating the minor forgery of a document.'
music is not only an `entertainment, nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Offline Florestan

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2424 on: August 11, 2017, 04:30:42 AM »
I was only thinking of the Strauss clan - and let Lehar (did I once see his house in Slovakia? I guess so) slip in because one of these popular articles mentioned him as well.
I think the story of the forgery of the Vienna records of their Jewish descent is told here: http://www.johann-strauss.at/wissen/faelschung_e.shtml

'The troublesome Strauss entry [in the Marriage register] had been removed ... and Strauss music, which is so German, as the Nazi paper Der Strmer put it, could continue to be broadcast by all radio stations in the Reich. In order to achieve this noble end there was, in terms of the opinion of the day, nothing wrong in perpetrating the minor forgery of a document.'

It's somehow amusing that Hitler and his acolytes managed to be both Wagnerians and Leharians, Brucknerians and Straussians. Siegfried and Hanna Glawari, a match made in Walhalla?  :D
Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent.Victor Hugo

Offline Ghost Sonata

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2425 on: August 11, 2017, 04:46:16 AM »
Hitler, who is believed to have said: 'I decide who is Jewish.'

That's also incorrect. It was actually said by Karl Lueger

I'll give you Strauss,  but Lehar was not Jewish.

I thought it was Gring who said that about Erhard Milch, in charge of aircraft procurement for the Luftwaffe and who reported directly to him.  "Wer Jude ist, bestimme ich..."  Perhaps there were several "deciders."  ::)
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Offline Ken B

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2426 on: August 11, 2017, 08:16:54 AM »
I thought it was Gring who said that about Erhard Milch, in charge of aircraft procurement for the Luftwaffe and who reported directly to him.  "Wer Jude ist, bestimme ich..."  Perhaps there were several "deciders."  ::)

If it was worth money, Goering would want the power to decide.
Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he is warm for life.

Offline Todd

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2427 on: August 11, 2017, 08:28:59 AM »
There are not enough discussions involving Nazis.
The universe is change; life is opinion.   Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Offline nodogen

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2428 on: August 11, 2017, 09:04:13 AM »
There are not enough discussions involving Nazis.

I agree, you can never have enough.
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Offline Ken B

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2429 on: August 11, 2017, 09:20:14 AM »
There are not enough discussions involving Nazis.
I agree, you can never have enough.

Topic nazis!

 ;) >:D :laugh:
Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he is warm for life.

Offline Alberich

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2430 on: August 11, 2017, 09:40:59 AM »
Is Josef the best Strauss?

No but Josephslegende is one of (Richard) Strauss's best works!
"I am a shadowy reflection of you."

Offline Ghost Sonata

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2431 on: August 11, 2017, 11:14:18 AM »
There are not enough discussions involving Nazis.

What would the History Channel do without them?
I like Conor71's "I  like old Music" signature.

Offline α |

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2432 on: August 12, 2017, 04:43:27 PM »
Holy fuck!

I just had Itunes on shuffle, then Tracees by Xenakis came on, then I had all these teenage memories flooding back to me. What's happened to me, why can't I have that enthusiasm I once had for Xenakis back?  :'( :'( :'( :'(

Offline Ken B

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2433 on: August 12, 2017, 06:09:38 PM »
Holy fuck!

I just had Itunes on shuffle, then Tracees by Xenakis came on, then I had all these teenage memories flooding back to me. What's happened to me, why can't I have that enthusiasm I once had for Xenakis back?  :'( :'( :'( :'(

You have just learned a lesson about nostalgia and "the good old days".  ;) but  $:) :blank:

 8)
Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he is warm for life.

Offline TheGSMoeller

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2434 on: August 13, 2017, 06:35:25 AM »
You have just learned a lesson about nostalgia and "the good old days".  ;) but  $:) :blank:

 8)

Oh yeah, I get that feeling when I hear If You Leave by Orchestral Manoeuvres In The Dark.

Offline α |

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2435 on: August 13, 2017, 01:41:54 PM »
I must have been really tired when I posted that because it was meant to go in the "Pieces that have recently blown you away" thread  ???  :laugh:

Offline TheGSMoeller

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2436 on: August 13, 2017, 01:49:34 PM »
I must have been really tired when I posted that because it was meant to go in the "Pieces that have recently blown you away" thread  ???  :laugh:

Oh, I thought this was the "Unpopular Opinions That Have Recently Blown You Away" thread.  :)

Offline α |

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2437 on: August 13, 2017, 02:27:09 PM »
"A bit of nostalgia for the old folks"  :laugh:


Offline rfeo

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2438 on: August 17, 2017, 03:15:40 AM »
Dvorak's opus numbers are important and useful.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Offline Alberich

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2439 on: August 17, 2017, 05:04:48 AM »
Dvorak's tone poems are underrated.
"I am a shadowy reflection of you."

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