Author Topic: Unpopular Opinions  (Read 154391 times)

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Offline mszczuj

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2011, 07:49:23 PM »
There is no grammar.

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2011, 08:03:54 PM »
By the way, anyone to insult Mahler shall be hammered;D

 :P I saw this post and I nearly busted out laughing, Daniel. Very, very funny...

Anyway, no I will not say anything too bad about Mahler ;), but what I will say is that his music grates on my nerves. It's so all over the place emotionally. Up and down, up and down, up and down....

It drives me crazy.
"Competitions are for horses, not artists.” - Béla Bartók

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #42 on: November 11, 2011, 08:05:26 PM »
I really can't stand the Baroque and Classical Eras. I'm not too big of fan of early Romantic either. For me, it's harmonically uninteresting.
"Competitions are for horses, not artists.” - Béla Bartók

Offline mszczuj

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2011, 08:12:50 PM »
Prokofiev composed SIX (6) symphonies, and no more than SIX (6).   :o

Any claims to the contrary are just wrong!   0:)

There, I have stated my unpopular opinion!  And I'm glad, I tell you!  Glad!!!   ;D

Yes, yes, that's it.

But this You Know What how is it called by those who can't recognize the facts?

I mean which number.

(1-7)

Offline mszczuj

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2011, 08:15:00 PM »

Offline Brian

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2011, 09:24:02 PM »

Offline Chaszz

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2011, 09:58:08 PM »
With some great exceptions the Classical period bores me also. In addition to its other shortcomings already described, such as the maddening reliance on tonic-dominant, its preference for building using short repeated figures at the expense of longer lines can drive me crazy.

The great influence of Classical period forms like sonata form on the Romantics was not necessarily a good one. Charles Rosen has written of how sonata form in the Romantic period was often an empty shell that had lost its vitality, and ran counter to the Romantics' need to write in freer melodic patterns. Schubert for one might not have wandered around so long in his movements had he not been seeking to fill out a form not really suited to his more melodic talents. His lieder succeed better because they're more natural to him. The one Romantic composer who really used sonata form as a still-living structure was Brahms, who of course was not a typical Romantic composer but a sort of throwback to earlier periods, though a very great one.

Louis Armstrong's Hot Five records while famous are still generally unappreciated as supreme works of American genius and are mostly unlistened to. I have found they throw off new little details to appreciate for the first time even after 56 years of listening. His trumpet improvising after 1930 was almost always on a much lower level.

Beethoven bores me with his dramatic self-righteous insistent morality which comes thru clearly even in the non-program music.

Bach is boring sometimes, especially in arias that are not particularly inspired but written out to a predetermined standard form with their very long repetitions. But on the other hand the number of really great works he wrote is enormous. Someone who does not "get" him is entitled to his opinion but is really missing out on a heck of a lot of supremely great music.

Rachmaninoff's music has mostly a single theme: lachrymose self-pity.

Hemingway is a great writer so unappealing in character and personality that I decline to even try him.

Likewise Woody Allen. Someone who with the whole wide world before him could not find anyone to marry except his childrens' sister is the ultimate in narcissistic uncaring self-absorption, practically to the point of criminality. The children he parented, especially his two biological children who do not speak to him, are probably facing lives as difficult as those subjected to sex abuse. How the literati and elites still honor him and fawn to him is to me indicative of a pretty sick culture.

Probably drifting into Diner territory here, so I'll stop.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 09:59:47 PM by Chaszz »
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Offline starrynight

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #47 on: November 12, 2011, 12:07:32 AM »
I suppose every era has its tropes or habits and people may grow to accept them or they may grate.  But I think the classical era could have some nice fluent melodic lines in the songlike lyricism of the  slow movements.  And Charles Rosen can say what he wants but my ears will decide for themselves.

Offline Josquin des Prez

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #48 on: November 12, 2011, 12:57:42 AM »
I really can't stand the Baroque and Classical Eras. I'm not too big of fan of early Romantic either. For me, it's harmonically uninteresting.

Haha, you have no idea what harmony is, do you. Bach harmonically uninteresting, hahahaha. Freaking 20th century ideologues man.

Offline mszczuj

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #49 on: November 12, 2011, 01:32:20 AM »
He dislikes the ending of No 7.

Oh, yes. Wich one?

Offline 71 dB

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #50 on: November 12, 2011, 01:58:59 AM »
I don't think it's a competition between styles.  But really people look at the baroque as lasting 150 years and normally look at the classical period as being far shorter so it isn't a good comparison.  The influence of music from the classical period reached far into the romantic period and beyond though with forms like the symphony, quartet and the piano sonata.

Renaissance lasted 200 years. The world gets quicker (more/better technology that allows us to do things faster). In "modern dance music" there was a HUGE amount of fast development between years 1988 and 1995:

:
1988   Acid House (late renaissance/early baroque like Monteverdi would be the equivalent)
1989   Hip House/early Rave (Schütz)
1990   Rave (Rosenmüller/Tunder/Weckmann)
1991   Hardcore Rave (Buxtehude)
1992   Breakbeat House (the high point of modern dance music like J.S. Bach and Handel of baroque)
1993   Darkside/early Jungle ("early galant" composers like Fasch and Hasse)
1994   Jungle (C.P.E. Bach)
1995   Drum 'n' Bass (Haydn)
:
:

The Thirty Years' War 1618-1648 delayed the development of northern Europe baroque.

The problem is that in our culture it is a "given fact" that Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven were geniuses while one has to find out about the wonders of baroque between Schütz and Bach. No wonder composers like Bruhns, Kuhnau, Tunder and Weckmann are so unknown. I am not saying that Tunder is as great as Mozart (he is not). I am saying that ignoring the most part of baroque gives people the impression that J.S. Bach is pretty much all baroque has to offer.

Remarkable classical era composers shouldn't be ignored (or laughed at) either and that's why I have been speaking for Dittersdorf on this forum.  ;D
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Offline starrynight

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #51 on: November 12, 2011, 02:24:11 AM »
It's easier for music critics to make their histories by just focussing on a few composers and ignoring the rest.  And that's all the more reason to not take them as gospel. 

Over time developments have perhaps accelerated.  The Medieval period will have been longer than the Renaissance.  Lots of developments of course don't necessarily mean lots of great music as you need styles to be explored in depth more for the full potential of them to be revealed.

Offline david johnson

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #52 on: November 12, 2011, 04:56:12 AM »
This thread is a sweet example of pooled ignorance  :P

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #53 on: November 12, 2011, 06:03:17 AM »
There are musical reasons why we listen to Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven much more than to their contemporaries — it's not just some conspiracy of oppression.
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #54 on: November 12, 2011, 06:11:58 AM »
There are musical reasons why we listen to Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven much more than to their contemporaries — it's not just some conspiracy of oppression.

Is there a musical reason too why many listen to Lady Gaga much more than to Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven ?
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Offline Szykneij

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #55 on: November 12, 2011, 06:14:39 AM »
I own a Zamfir CD. I like it.
Men profess to be lovers of music, but for the most part they give no evidence in their opinions and lives that they have heard it.  ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Offline Josquin des Prez

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #56 on: November 12, 2011, 06:16:35 AM »
Is there a musical reason too why many listen to Lady Gaga much more than to Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven ?

No, that's just because most people are that dumb/ignorant.

Offline Josquin des Prez

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #57 on: November 12, 2011, 06:18:42 AM »
Just in case you're not joking ..

J.S. Bach is unparalleled as far as harmonic profundity is concerned, all music is rendered harmonically tame in comparison. Things do generally drop off after Baroque (which I love) .. i.e. 'Classical Era' (a big BIG yawner for me too) .. then they pickup again with Wagner who's absolutely sublime and harmonically 'profound'.

This statement is once again nonsensical. Is the music of Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Chopin etc. not harmonically profound? The first two could for instance run circles around Wagner in terms of contrapuntal mastery. Is that not profound? Why do people keep confusing technique with profundity? Is a second rate 20th century composer somehow more profound and complex then a Beethoven, due exclusively to his 20th century technical baggage?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 06:22:33 AM by Josquin des Prez »

Offline Szykneij

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #58 on: November 12, 2011, 06:23:54 AM »
This thread is a haven where you can go against the grain without fear of persecution.
Men profess to be lovers of music, but for the most part they give no evidence in their opinions and lives that they have heard it.  ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #59 on: November 12, 2011, 06:39:58 AM »
No, that's just because most people are that dumb/ignorant.

Exactly the answers I was expecting (it was a rhetoric question you know).

How about considering the possibility that Vanhal, Dittersdorf and Hofmann are almost as good as Haydn but much less listened because most people into classical music are that ignorant?
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