Author Topic: Unpopular Opinions  (Read 207792 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ComposerOfAvantGarde

  • Guest
Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2460 on: October 13, 2017, 01:33:24 AM »
Lol whoops I meant Jason Eckardt not James...........................................

Offline Florestan

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14966
  • Mozart painted by Jean-Baptiste Greuze, 1763-64
  • Location: Bucharest, Romania
Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2461 on: October 13, 2017, 02:05:52 AM »
My only thought is: who are these people?

Your boycotting of living composers would horrify some guy.  ;D
Music, even in situations of the greatest horror, should never be painful to the ear but should flatter and charm it, and thereby always remain music.. - Mozart

Offline Madiel

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 5926
    • A musical diary
  • Location: Canberra, Australia
  • Currently Listening to:
    Whatever's listed in my blog.
Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2462 on: October 13, 2017, 05:58:09 AM »
I seemed to have better luck finding them...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Eckardt

It would have helped if I was given the correct name to actually search for.

There you have it folks: composers so well known that the person who initially named them couldn't quite remember the name.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Offline Madiel

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 5926
    • A musical diary
  • Location: Canberra, Australia
  • Currently Listening to:
    Whatever's listed in my blog.
Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2463 on: October 13, 2017, 05:59:53 AM »
Your boycotting of living composers would horrify some guy.  ;D

I don't boycott them. I'm quite sure I own a considerable number of works by living composers. Including (but not confined to) all the pop/rock/alternative musicians that lots of folks around here would be horrified that I don't boycott.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Offline Florestan

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14966
  • Mozart painted by Jean-Baptiste Greuze, 1763-64
  • Location: Bucharest, Romania
Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2464 on: October 13, 2017, 06:29:43 AM »
There you have it folks: composers so well known that the person who initially named them couldn't quite remember the name.

I don't boycott them. I'm quite sure I own a considerable number of works by living composers. Including (but not confined to) all the pop/rock/alternative musicians that lots of folks around here would be horrified that I don't boycott.

Hah!

Music, even in situations of the greatest horror, should never be painful to the ear but should flatter and charm it, and thereby always remain music.. - Mozart

Offline Uhor

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 112
Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2465 on: October 16, 2017, 06:20:47 AM »
Care for others as well as you would an expensive violin, people are instruments too.

Offline LKB

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1286
  • Location: USA
  • Currently Listening to:
    something between my ears
Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2466 on: October 16, 2017, 08:18:13 AM »
Your boycotting of living composers would horrify some guy.  ;D

While l don't exactly boycott most living composers, enough of them bore the crap out of me consistently enough that l do not seek them out.

Living Composer  >:D,

LKB
Mit Flügeln, die ich mir errungen...

millionrainbows

  • Guest
Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2467 on: October 20, 2017, 01:00:15 PM »
Ah but did he use them all equally and all in the same order. Now that would interesting.

Oh, yeah, you mean like Schoenberg's 12-tone stuff. True. But even Bach had the Chromatic Fantasy, and the Sinfonia Nr. 9 uses 11 of the 12, but they're passing tones, usually. True 'use of all 12 tones' would be if they were all root movements. That would be true harmonic chromaticism.

Offline Mahlerian

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2808
Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2468 on: October 20, 2017, 01:01:54 PM »
Oh, yeah, you mean like Schoenberg's 12-tone stuff. True.

Except that that's not the way any of Schoenberg's, or anyone else's, 12-tone music actually works.  Why don't people just use their ears and hear that it's exactly the same as any other music, aside from the term?
"l do not consider my music as atonal, but rather as non-tonal. I feel the unity of all keys. Atonal music by modern composers admits of no key at all, no feeling of any definite center." - Arnold Schoenberg

Offline Madiel

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 5926
    • A musical diary
  • Location: Canberra, Australia
  • Currently Listening to:
    Whatever's listed in my blog.
Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2469 on: October 20, 2017, 02:24:47 PM »
Except that that's not the way any of Schoenberg's, or anyone else's, 12-tone music actually works.  Why don't people just use their ears and hear that it's exactly the same as any other music, aside from the term?

Because it's not "exactly the same". "Exactly the same" would consist of copying out another composer's piece and claiming it was your own. Your insistence on claiming there's nothing at all different makes about as much sense as asserting that all human beings are clone copies of each other.

And it certainly doesn't make sense to prefer one kind of music that is "exactly the same" over another kind. And yet here we all are, exhibiting preferences. Do you deny you have preferences?
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Offline Mahlerian

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2808
Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2470 on: October 20, 2017, 02:51:19 PM »
Because it's not "exactly the same". "Exactly the same" would consist of copying out another composer's piece and claiming it was your own. Your insistence on claiming there's nothing at all different makes about as much sense as asserting that all human beings are clone copies of each other.

And it certainly doesn't make sense to prefer one kind of music that is "exactly the same" over another kind. And yet here we all are, exhibiting preferences. Do you deny you have preferences?

Yes, it is different from other pieces of music in the same way that other pieces of music are different from each other.  I don't have a preference for 12-tone music any more than I have a preference for pieces of music using the note D# exactly 62 times.  It seems like an irrelevant characteristic.
"l do not consider my music as atonal, but rather as non-tonal. I feel the unity of all keys. Atonal music by modern composers admits of no key at all, no feeling of any definite center." - Arnold Schoenberg

Offline Madiel

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 5926
    • A musical diary
  • Location: Canberra, Australia
  • Currently Listening to:
    Whatever's listed in my blog.
Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2471 on: October 20, 2017, 02:54:50 PM »
Yes, it is different from other pieces of music in the same way that other pieces of music are different from each other.  I don't have a preference for 12-tone music any more than I have a preference for pieces of music using the note D# exactly 62 times.  It seems like an irrelevant characteristic.

And because you find it irrelevant, you keep insisting that everybody else should also find it irrelevant. THAT is the biggest problem in the way you talk about this stuff. You're constantly mystified as to why other people decide to consider distinctions relevant that you don't consider relevant.

Which is not how subjective tastes work.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 02:57:03 PM by ørfeo »
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Offline Mahlerian

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2808
Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2472 on: October 20, 2017, 03:00:41 PM »
And because you find it irrelevant, you keep insisting that everybody else should also find it irrelevant. THAT is the biggest problem in the way you talk about this stuff. You're constantly mystified as to why other people decide to consider distinctions relevant that you don't consider relevant.

No, other people insist that there is a relevant distinction present, and I am asking them to say what it is.  All of the answers I receive are nonsensical, which indicates either that they are unable to articulate that distinction, though they are able to perceive it and I am not, or there is no distinction present.
"l do not consider my music as atonal, but rather as non-tonal. I feel the unity of all keys. Atonal music by modern composers admits of no key at all, no feeling of any definite center." - Arnold Schoenberg

Offline Madiel

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 5926
    • A musical diary
  • Location: Canberra, Australia
  • Currently Listening to:
    Whatever's listed in my blog.
Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2473 on: October 20, 2017, 03:03:26 PM »
No, other people insist that there is a relevant distinction present, and I am asking them to say what it is.  All of the answers I receive are nonsensical, which indicates either that they are unable to articulate that distinction, though they are able to perceive it and I am not, or there is no distinction present.

Maybe you should roll your eyes and move on. I know that's what I'm going to do after this post.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Parsifal

  • Guest
Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2474 on: October 20, 2017, 03:11:52 PM »
No, other people insist that there is a relevant distinction present, and I am asking them to say what it is.  All of the answers I receive are nonsensical, which indicates either that they are unable to articulate that distinction, though they are able to perceive it and I am not, or there is no distinction present.

So you have excluded, as a matter principle, the possibility that they have articulated a distinction which you failed to understand?

Offline Mahlerian

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2808
Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2475 on: October 20, 2017, 05:02:20 PM »
So you have excluded, as a matter principle, the possibility that they have articulated a distinction which you failed to understand?

Yes, because then they would have been able to articulate it in a way that was not self-contradictory.
"l do not consider my music as atonal, but rather as non-tonal. I feel the unity of all keys. Atonal music by modern composers admits of no key at all, no feeling of any definite center." - Arnold Schoenberg

millionrainbows

  • Guest
Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2476 on: October 21, 2017, 01:40:19 PM »
Why don't people just use their ears and hear that it's exactly the same as any other music, aside from the term?

Probably because "they" don't hear it that way. Exactly the same? That's a rather broad generalization.

Offline Abuelo Igor

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 235
  • Location: Madrid, Spain
  • Currently Listening to:
    The sound of one hand clapping
Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2477 on: January 14, 2018, 02:56:36 AM »
Richard Strauss was considerably more talented than Mahler.
L'enfant, c'est moi.

Offline Alberich

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1774
  • Huge fan of 19th and 20th century art.
  • Location: Finland
Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2478 on: January 14, 2018, 05:47:38 AM »
I would like to say: he was. But then I remember Mahler's 4th symphony. And I also would like to say he wasn't: but then I remember Elektra. Sometimes I like to put the other one above the other but most often they are close to a tie.
"Javert, though frightful, had nothing ignoble about him. Probity, sincerity, candor, conviction, the sense of duty, are things which may become hideous when wrongly directed; but which, even when hideous, remain grand."

- Victor Hugo

Offline Jo498

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3779
  • Location: Germany
Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2479 on: January 14, 2018, 08:32:48 AM »
Sure (Did not Stravinsky say "the talent that once was a genius" about Strauss?), but Mahler still turned out the more interesting instrumental music, I think.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)