Author Topic: Recordings That You Are Considering  (Read 1362775 times)

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Offline Dancing Divertimentian

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #14280 on: November 04, 2017, 07:30:11 AM »
A definite plus. The reason I've avoided digging deep into Harnoncourt/Leonhardt is their use of boy sopranos and male altos. Historically correct, of course, but I live, thank god, in the 21st century, a time and place where we have women  ;D

Sarge

It's also historically correct that Bach was THE most exacting of music directors. So I'd lay odds he disliked boy sopranos more than we do. :D
Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Offline amw

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #14281 on: November 20, 2017, 02:31:50 AM »
Sonatas & Partitas: Lucy van Dael or Ingrid Matthews? (Assuming you had to make a choice.)

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #14282 on: November 20, 2017, 09:03:45 AM »
Sonatas & Partitas: Lucy van Dael or Ingrid Matthews? (Assuming you had to make a choice.)

Impossible to choose because they're so different. 
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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #14283 on: November 20, 2017, 09:05:30 AM »
Impossible to choose because they're so different.

Do you claim this makes sense?

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #14284 on: November 20, 2017, 09:19:02 AM »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Josquin13

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #14285 on: November 20, 2017, 01:57:59 PM »
Sonatas & Partitas: Lucy van Dael or Ingrid Matthews? (Assuming you had to make a choice.)

It's hard to offer a strong preference, either way. Matthew's violin technique is probably a little better (as Van Dael isn't hugely virtuosic), but both are interesting, good interpreters of this music.  However, neither violinist would figure into my top 2 or 3 recommendations among period recordings.

I personally prefer (1) Stanley Ritchie (Matthews' teacher), who has spent a lifetime studying, teaching, and performing this music, and plays a 1670 Jacob Stainer--a violin that Bach owned (yes, it makes a world of difference!), (2) Helene Schmitt's more rhythmically free, soulful interpretations, and perhaps (3) Sigiswald Kuijken's pioneering recording--which I haven't heard in a long time, and (4) Amadine Beyer. Though I've yet to hear François Fernandez, Rachel Podger, & Enrico Onofri's recordings.  Among other period violinists, I'd be very keen to hear the brilliant Anton Steck play them, along with Alina Ibragimova (should she record a second period set, as she's already done them on a modern violin), Chiara Banchini, Enrico Gatti, Stefano Montanari, Enrico Casazza, and especially, Pablo Valetti.  Most of whom I'd probably prefer to van Dael & Matthews--though that's just my opinion (& I hope I haven't confused you more):

« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 10:41:51 PM by Que »

Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #14286 on: November 20, 2017, 02:18:29 PM »
Among other period violinists, I'd be very keen to hear the brilliant Anton Steck play them, along with Alina Ibragimova (should she record a second period set, as she's already done them on a modern violin), Chiara Banchini, Enrico Gatti, Stefano Montanari, Enrico Casazza, and especially, Pablo Valetti.  Most of whom I'd probably prefer to van Dael & Matthews--though that's just my opinion (& I hope I haven't confused you more):



I owned this, but parted with it again. So much Italian gusto does spoil the music.

https://www.amazon.it/Bach-Sonate-Partite-Montanari-Stefano/dp/B00R7APRR2/ref=sr_1_12?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1511216080&sr=1-12&keywords=stefano+montanari
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 10:43:36 PM by Que »
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Offline amw

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #14287 on: November 21, 2017, 06:44:16 AM »
It's hard to offer a strong preference, either way. Matthew's violin technique is probably a little better (as Van Dael isn't hugely virtuosic), but both are interesting, good interpreters of this music.  However, neither violinist would figure into my top 2 or 3 recommendations among period recordings.

I personally prefer (1) Stanley Ritchie (Matthews' teacher), who has spent a lifetime studying, teaching, and performing this music, and plays a 1670 Jacob Stainer--a violin that Bach owned (yes, it makes a world of difference!), (2) Helene Schmitt's more rhythmically free, soulful interpretations, and perhaps (3) Sigiswald Kuijken's pioneering recording--which I haven't heard in a long time, and (4) Amadine Beyer. Though I've yet to hear François Fernandez, Rachel Podger, & Enrico Onofri's recordings.  Among other period violinists, I'd be very keen to hear the brilliant Anton Steck play them, along with Alina Ibragimova (should she record a second period set, as she's already done them on a modern violin), Chiara Banchini, Enrico Gatti, Stefano Montanari, Enrico Casazza, and especially, Pablo Valetti.  Most of whom I'd probably prefer to van Dael & Matthews--though that's just my opinion (& I hope I haven't confused you more)
It's ok, these are good, nerdy opinions that I like.

I have and like Lucy van Dael's accompanied sonatas with Asperen, and have easy access to her cycle; and gave Ingrid Matthews top marks in a blind comparison recently-ish.

I own: Viktoria Mullova (Onyx/period instruments), Gidon Kremer (ECM), Amandine Beyer.
I am also considering: John Holloway, Rachel Podger, Sirka-Liisa Kaakinen-Pilch, Sergiu Luca, Midori Seiler (what's with the ultra slow BWV 1005???), Christine Busch
I am not at this moment considering: Jaap Schröder, Sigiswald Kuijken, Monica Huggett, any modern-instrument recordings (unless someone were to single out Isabelle Faust, Antje Weithaas or David Grimal as particularly exceptional)

Any further opinions will also be appreciated

Offline Jeffrey Smith

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #14288 on: November 21, 2017, 09:18:25 AM »
It's ok, these are good, nerdy opinions that I like.

I have and like Lucy van Dael's accompanied sonatas with Asperen, and have easy access to her cycle; and gave Ingrid Matthews top marks in a blind comparison recently-ish.

I own: Viktoria Mullova (Onyx/period instruments), Gidon Kremer (ECM), Amandine Beyer.
I am also considering: John Holloway, Rachel Podger, Sirka-Liisa Kaakinen-Pilch, Sergiu Luca, Midori Seiler (what's with the ultra slow BWV 1005???), Christine Busch
I am not at this moment considering: Jaap Schröder, Sigiswald Kuijken, Monica Huggett, any modern-instrument recordings (unless someone were to single out Isabelle Faust, Antje Weithaas or David Grimal as particularly exceptional)

Any further opinions will also be appreciated
I would say go for Podger, although I haven't got any of the others you are mulling over.....
You might also want to check into the accompanied sonatas she did with Pinnock.

Offline Pat B

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #14289 on: November 21, 2017, 01:35:26 PM »
It's ok, these are good, nerdy opinions that I like.

I have and like Lucy van Dael's accompanied sonatas with Asperen, and have easy access to her cycle; and gave Ingrid Matthews top marks in a blind comparison recently-ish.

I own: Viktoria Mullova (Onyx/period instruments), Gidon Kremer (ECM), Amandine Beyer.
I am also considering: John Holloway, Rachel Podger, Sirka-Liisa Kaakinen-Pilch, Sergiu Luca, Midori Seiler (what's with the ultra slow BWV 1005???), Christine Busch
I am not at this moment considering: Jaap Schröder, Sigiswald Kuijken, Monica Huggett, any modern-instrument recordings (unless someone were to single out Isabelle Faust, Antje Weithaas or David Grimal as particularly exceptional)

Any further opinions will also be appreciated

IMO go for the one you liked blind, even though it wasn’t exhaustive.

FWIW, my choice there was Christine Busch, which will be my next purchase of this music, with Matthews at #2.

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #14290 on: November 22, 2017, 12:01:09 PM »
@amw: okay, let me single out Isabelle Faust then .... heard her do the six in concert, too. One of my favourite recent recordings (Beyer and Schmitt are two others). Not sure it's a modern version btw but a far from my collection right now.
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Online North Star

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #14291 on: November 22, 2017, 12:06:22 PM »
@amw: okay, let me single out Isabelle Faust then .... heard her do the six in concert, too. One of my favourite recent recordings (Beyer and Schmitt are two others). Not sure it's a modern version btw but a far from my collection right now.
I'm pretty sure it is, a sort of companion to the cello suites by Queyras.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #14292 on: November 22, 2017, 01:36:16 PM »

I personally prefer (1) Stanley Ritchie (Matthews' teacher), who has spent a lifetime studying, teaching, and performing this music, and plays a 1670 Jacob Stainer--a violin that Bach owned (yes, it makes a world of difference!)



It certainly is a distinctive and rich sounding instrument, at least on the spotify stream. The recording has never won a place in my heart, and it's not easy for me to say why. I find it heavy. It seems expressive in a dramatic way, rather than the intimate way which I like. But what I'm not sure about is whether part of this is just because of the transfer on Spotify, Spotify transfers are sometimes really misleading. 

I'll be very curious to hear what others think because I'm not sure whether to spend some money and buy the CD - clearly Ritchie's view of the music is informed.
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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #14293 on: November 22, 2017, 02:06:03 PM »
I also like Gidon Kremer's ECM 2008 recording.



Definitely not HIP but his muscular and energetic performance is worth hearing.

That one is on my piles, together with his earlier recording, still waiting to be explored.
Es wollt ein meydlein grasen gan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Und do die roten röslein stan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Fick mich mehr, du hast dein ehr.
Kannstu nit, ich wills dich lern.
Fick mich, lieber Peter!

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #14294 on: November 22, 2017, 10:05:29 PM »
It's ok, these are good, nerdy opinions that I like.

I have and like Lucy van Dael's accompanied sonatas with Asperen, and have easy access to her cycle; and gave Ingrid Matthews top marks in a blind comparison recently-ish.

I own: Viktoria Mullova (Onyx/period instruments), Gidon Kremer (ECM), Amandine Beyer.
I am also considering: John Holloway, Rachel Podger, Sirka-Liisa Kaakinen-Pilch, Sergiu Luca, Midori Seiler (what's with the ultra slow BWV 1005???), Christine Busch
I am not at this moment considering: Jaap Schröder, Sigiswald Kuijken, Monica Huggett, any modern-instrument recordings (unless someone were to single out Isabelle Faust, Antje Weithaas or David Grimal as particularly exceptional)

Any further opinions will also be appreciated

I think you should listen to Tetzlaff's new one and see what you think, I like it.

Why are you not considering Kuijken's first recording, the one from 1983? It is outstanding.

I am very fond of Holloway's.

I think that you should check out Ryo Terakado's.

When you first asked the question I listened to Dael and Matthews a bit, they're so different I just assumed that they were from different times, that the highly nuanced Matthews represents a more modern view of Bach performance or something. But no, they were both released at roughly the same time I think.

As far as modern instrument recordings of all six go, the one I like most is Christian Ferras's - if it's hard to find and you want I can let you have it.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 11:57:10 PM by Mandryka »
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Offline Jo498

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #14295 on: November 22, 2017, 11:42:45 PM »
So that's Tetzlaff's 3rd recording, I think. Has another violinist done them 3 times? (There are quite a few with two recordings.)
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #14296 on: November 23, 2017, 07:01:44 AM »
So that's Tetzlaff's 3rd recording, I think. Has another violinist done them 3 times? (There are quite a few with two recordings.)

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Offline amw

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #14297 on: November 23, 2017, 06:40:35 PM »
I would say go for Podger, although I haven't got any of the others you are mulling over.....
Noted.

FWIW, my choice there was Christine Busch, which will be my next purchase of this music, with Matthews at #2.
I plan to stream Christine Busch at some later date since it's available on Qobuz.

@amw: okay, let me single out Isabelle Faust then .... heard her do the six in concert, too. One of my favourite recent recordings (Beyer and Schmitt are two others). Not sure it's a modern version btw but a far from my collection right now.
It's modern but HIP-influenced. My local library has these as well, so, also noted.

I also like Gidon Kremer's ECM 2008 recording.
Own it. One of the best versions I've heard in general.

I think you should listen to Tetzlaff's new one and see what you think, I like it.
Ok.

Quote
Why are you not considering Kuijken's first recording, the one from 1983? It is outstanding.
Opinion taken under advisement. (I'm not sure if that one is available for streaming but will investigate..... both of his recordings are on DHM correct?)


Quote
I am very fond of Holloway's.
Me too. I may obtain it as well.

Quote
I think that you should check out Ryo Terakado's.
Did not know that existed, thanks.

Quote
As far as modern instrument recordings of all six go, the one I like most is Christian Ferras's - if it's hard to find and you want I can let you have it.
Did not know that existed either, will investigate.

Offline Todd

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #14298 on: November 23, 2017, 07:07:34 PM »



I don't need another cycle, and the Oliver Schynder cycle would probably be more important to get than this, and this is kind of spendy, but it could be pretty good. 
The universe is change; life is opinion.   Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #14299 on: November 24, 2017, 09:41:53 AM »
Noted.
I plan to stream Christine Busch at some later date since it's available on Qobuz.
It's modern but HIP-influenced. My local library has these as well, so, also noted.
Own it. One of the best versions I've heard in general.
Ok.
Opinion taken under advisement. (I'm not sure if that one is available for streaming but will investigate..... both of his recordings are on DHM correct?)

Me too. I may obtain it as well.
Did not know that existed, thanks.
Did not know that existed either, will investigate.

I went out of my way to hear some modern violin performances today, and as a result I want to disrecommend Ferras.

He projects the music forth like an old style lieder singer, and the expression sometimes verges on the dramatic. I've become  disillusioned with this way of performing music, even later music, I can't stand it, and so for me Ferras isn't a  pleasant experience any more, despite some very moving playing, in 1005 especially.

I also listened to some of Kremer, and I noticed the nice sound he makes, and his virtuosity. The complex variety of touch and dynamics, is probably absolutely the right way to play baroque. And this music is baroque I think. I just don't care for this sort of ostentatious display of instrumental effects.

I then listened to parts of the recordings by Ida Haendel and Susan Lautenbacher and felt much more satisfied.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 11:09:23 PM by Mandryka »
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