Author Topic: 21st century classical music  (Read 142647 times)

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Offline Crudblud

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1280 on: November 13, 2017, 11:58:13 AM »
Dieter Ammann - "glut" (2014-2016) for orchestra

I feel like I've been hearing many pieces exactly like this whenever I look up 21st century orchestral stuff on YouTube. Has this "swimmy" aesthetic been in fashion for several decades now or do I just have a tin ear for what's new?

Offline some guy

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1281 on: November 13, 2017, 01:36:42 PM »
I think this kind of thing may have begun, or have begun to take over the previous Lutosławski kind of orchestral piece, in the mid-90s or thereabouts, so a couple of decades, anyway.

It's a smoother, duller sound than Lutosławski favored--though I was still hearing a lot of the bright, brassy stuff with lots of percussion until well into the new century.

As Brümmer put it to me once, the problem with instruments is that they take over--an orchestral piece almost always sounds like "an orchestral piece." The brass are brassy, the flutes are flutey, the percussion is percussive, the strings are stringy. And the music, however interesting or different the composer may have wanted to be, slips into the old, familiar patterns because it's old, familiar instruments that are playing (being written for).

I advanced Lachenmann and Andre, but he wasn't having any of it.

Anyway, as I've thought of it since, it's true that each machine has certain things that it does that over time come to be seen as the normal things, the natural things, for that machine. Pizzacato was seen by some, even hundreds of years after its introduction, as unnatural. And a fairly prominent violinist once went off on how she and her classmates would laugh at Penderecki pieces when in uni because they were so "unviolinistic." I said "What constitutes 'unviolinistic'? If a violin can do it, it's violinistic," but she wasn't having any of it. And Cowell's and later Cage's "unpianistic" adventures with pianos made one or two people deeply unhappy.

It takes a keen, imaginative mind and a willing performer to push the bounds of what is accepted as natural for each machine. I think we've actually been pretty lucky at having so many of those two types of people. Still, they are undoubtedly outnumbered by the "this is what a trumpet does, the end" crowd.

Offline jessop

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1282 on: November 14, 2017, 02:54:21 PM »
I, too, have noticed the 'swimmy' aesthetic, and although I enjoy much of the music it would be good to have some more variety. Orchestral music being so time consuming to compose (not to mention the fact that symphony orchestras are much more in the 'mainstream' than, say, JACK Quartet) may simply result in composers falling back on patterns they know work for them and also have some similarity with other recent repertoire........probably owing to less of an idiosyncratic sound. I feel like somehow it has always been like that. A Beethoven symphony might sound a lot closer to an Arriaga symphony than a Beethoven string quartet sounds to an Arriaga string quartet.

Offline San Antonio

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1283 on: November 14, 2017, 02:56:15 PM »
I generally think that new chamber music is more interesting than orchestral.  Unless the orchestra is used a several chamber groups.

Offline jessop

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1284 on: November 14, 2017, 03:00:32 PM »
Wolfgang Mitterer wrote some pretty nice orchestral music such as Crush 1-5 (I have been listening to a lot recently and mentioned quite a number of times on GMG) and this piano concerto. His music certainly has 'swimmy' in its sound although I feel like there is a lot more going on with the way he explores sound than just that swimmy stuff.......................

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/rp2TSnudBa0" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/rp2TSnudBa0</a>

Offline jessop

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1285 on: November 14, 2017, 03:02:09 PM »
I generally think that new chamber music is more interesting than orchestral.  Unless the orchestra is used a several chamber groups.

I agree. It is also a lot more fun to watch being performed and to compose................ (solo music is its own composition challenge that is way more difficult than chamber)

Offline North Star

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1286 on: November 14, 2017, 03:19:45 PM »
Wolfgang Mitterer wrote some pretty nice orchestral music such as
Why past tense?
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Offline jessop

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1287 on: November 14, 2017, 05:45:30 PM »
Why past tense?

He finished writing the orchestral pieces I mentioned.

But of course, he is still actively composing! ;D

Online Le Moderniste

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1288 on: November 14, 2017, 06:01:45 PM »
Claus-Steffen Mahnkopf, Richard Barrett and John Zorn are three of my favorite current living composers  ;D

I would be tempted to say Murail but I actually haven't any of his most recent works...

Offline San Antonio

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1289 on: November 14, 2017, 06:06:29 PM »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/eFABMipJtns" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/eFABMipJtns</a>

Georg Friedrich Haas - RELEASE (for ensemble) (2017)

Offline San Antonio

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1290 on: November 14, 2017, 06:08:59 PM »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/7fvCAM-eTUg" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/7fvCAM-eTUg</a>

Mark Andre - durch (w/ score) (for saxophone, percussion and piano) (2004/5)

Offline San Antonio

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1291 on: November 14, 2017, 06:10:56 PM »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/0uZTkCBOSTU" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/0uZTkCBOSTU</a>

Nina C. Young - Memento Mori

Offline jessop

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1292 on: November 14, 2017, 06:30:02 PM »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/7fvCAM-eTUg" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/7fvCAM-eTUg</a>

Mark Andre - durch (w/ score) (for saxophone, percussion and piano) (2004/5)

Great great great piece really fantastic. And also available on an amazing release from Kairos nine years ago



(the image is a link to where you can get the disc)

Offline jessop

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1293 on: November 14, 2017, 06:36:11 PM »
More on the topic of orchestral aesthetics, what do you lot think of this?

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Offline Crudblud

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1294 on: November 15, 2017, 04:19:40 PM »
A Beethoven symphony might sound a lot closer to an Arriaga symphony than a Beethoven string quartet sounds to an Arriaga string quartet.

This makes me wonder if the orchestra has more universal and durable aesthetic trends owing to its occupying a more "public" space than standardised chamber ensembles. I don't know if this is true or not, but I had always understood that Beethoven wrote his symphonies for the public and his quartets for a more exclusive audience, and when I read the quote above it made me think that maybe an inherited sense of purpose or function (i.e.: to communicate broadly), compounded over generations and eras, is part of what makes that distinction between spaces occupied true—if it is true*. Is the orchestra as a medium for grand public statements traceable back to Beethoven or does it go further back? I wonder furthermore if the sheer number of people working together as a single unit encourages or even necessitates this "publicness"; is it possible to create something for such a unit without the implicit aiming for grand statement? Probably. How did I get here?

*I think this is the point where I lost the thread of whatever it is I was talking about

More on the topic of orchestral aesthetics, what do you lot think of this?

I like this much better than the Ammann piece, but I'm not sure I could accurately explain why. Perhaps because this one feels like a more focused exploration of an idea, like beneath the flashy exterior displays there is a core driving the thing, where Glut felt like it was meandering on the surface level. This piece has motifs, or at least things that can operate as motifs recurring in different timbrel guises at steady intervals, maintaining a strong sense of continuity. There is a completeness to it, its constituent parts integrate and support each other.

Offline San Antonio

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1295 on: November 15, 2017, 05:08:57 PM »
String quartet by Dieter Ammann, 2009

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/fDffovMgs2s" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/fDffovMgs2s</a>

Ammann: "Geborstener Satz casalQuartett"

Offline San Antonio

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1296 on: November 15, 2017, 05:17:14 PM »
Duet for clarinet and flute by Dieter Ammann: "Cute"

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/3VJlv2gla94" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/3VJlv2gla94</a>

Marion Aruvee, flutes
Helena Tuuling, clarinets

Offline San Antonio

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1297 on: November 15, 2017, 05:21:30 PM »
Gérard Pesson :: Quatuor ŕ cordes №.2 “Bitume”

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/4cBhYTCF_M0" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/4cBhYTCF_M0</a>

Starts out slowly but around 7'30" starts to get really interesting.

Offline San Antonio

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1298 on: November 15, 2017, 05:28:23 PM »
Marina Poleukhina :: in its own tempo

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Scez-mVZofY" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/Scez-mVZofY</a>

Like this one.

Offline Cato

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1299 on: November 15, 2017, 05:38:24 PM »
I feel like I've been hearing many pieces exactly like this whenever I look up 21st century orchestral stuff on YouTube. Has this "swimmy" aesthetic been in fashion for several decades now or do I just have a tin ear for what's new?

Here is the antidote!

Karl Henning's Out in the Sun


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/n-95rYkIbmE" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/n-95rYkIbmE</a>
"Now who taught ye t' be playin' patty fingers in the holy water?"

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