Author Topic: 21st century classical music  (Read 145619 times)

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Offline aleazk

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1340 on: November 19, 2017, 04:17:55 AM »
This is ah....somehow both very specific but also very vague in terms of how it links to form.........but I like this approach too. ;D

Yes, the thing is that, at the macro scale, you can direct the web to fit a form... for example, the third movement of Ligeti's Piano Concerto can be described as a Rondo, where sections based on the lamento motif (and similar to the Piano Etude Automne a Varsovie) alternate with "african episodes", characterized by the bongos playing the typical african 4:3 polyrhythm.

On the other hand, it can be simply formless. In my own Piano Concerto piece* (sorry for the dubious example), I tried to do this, where the material simply evolves constantly and at the macro level I only worried about textural contrasts. In the third movement, however, I did some Rondo-like thing.

*After an introduction, three independent lines are introduced, 1,2, and 3. Then 1 and 3 just change harmonically, while 2 (which is the piano part) suffers changes in both rhythm and harmony. Then the original 2 stops and 1 and 3 take the lead, the piano plays 3 and introduces gradual changes. Then 2 comes back and suffers more changes until it completely changes from its original self, where both hands played the same accents, to a polymeter between the accents in both hands, and this is the cadenza. Then a coda and bye. I also tried to do similar things in my few pieces of musique concrete. How do YOU approach form in your pieces then?
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 04:58:20 AM by aleazk »

Offline Cato

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1341 on: November 19, 2017, 05:41:22 AM »
How do YOU approach form in your pieces then?

When I was composing, I often let the musical material dictate the form, and followed it somewhat instinctively.

Check out my Exaudi me. the only work (so far) salvaged from the memory hole of my musical past.

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,26569.0.html

Scroll to response #13 for access to the score and a MIDI choir performance.

I tended to compose melodies with 9-bar periodicity, but the melody was structured with motifs of 3 bars each.  Thus by rearranging the 3 motifs, one could create variations rather instantly, and thereby create new harmonic possibilities in the counterpoint.  With three different such melodies, things could become rather complex very quickly.

But all of that quickly comes across as bloodless experimentation or polyphonic tinkering, until one hears something that strikes the soul...and then one runs with it, until one's aesthetic judgment says: "Yes, that expresses what I want in the way I want it!"    0:)

So, one can use these ideas for a continual variation and development A-B-C-D-E-F etc.  or allow the ancestors to return now and then in some way, whatever the ear finds pleasing.
"Now who taught ye t' be playin' patty fingers in the holy water?"

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Offline San Antonio

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1342 on: November 19, 2017, 08:20:29 AM »
When I was composing, I often let the musical material dictate the form, and followed it somewhat instinctively.

I no longer compose classical music.  But I when I did, the form was an organic outgrowth from the thematic materials. 

I only write songs now, lyrics and music - stories in song.  I am constructing a group of connected songs covering the history of America from the earliest colonial settlements to the present through telling the histories of nine fictional families. 

Offline aleazk

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1343 on: November 19, 2017, 08:57:12 AM »
When I was composing, I often let the musical material dictate the form, and followed it somewhat instinctively.

Check out my Exaudi me. the only work (so far) salvaged from the memory hole of my musical past.

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,26569.0.html

Scroll to response #13 for access to the score and a MIDI choir performance.

I tended to compose melodies with 9-bar periodicity, but the melody was structured with motifs of 3 bars each.  Thus by rearranging the 3 motifs, one could create variations rather instantly, and thereby create new harmonic possibilities in the counterpoint.  With three different such melodies, things could become rather complex very quickly.

But all of that quickly comes across as bloodless experimentation or polyphonic tinkering, until one hears something that strikes the soul...and then one runs with it, until one's aesthetic judgment says: "Yes, that expresses what I want in the way I want it!"    0:)

So, one can use these ideas for a continual variation and development A-B-C-D-E-F etc.  or allow the ancestors to return now and then in some way, whatever the ear finds pleasing.

Yes, that's my favorite approach too. I do get jessop's point, though. One can start with a preconceived form (he cites deadlines and things like that, which I see as a fair reason). After all, that's what most composers in the past used to do!

This idea of paying attention to the moment but also to the organic and uncompromising development is really a very post-1950 thing. @Mahlerian once showed me a fantastic radio interview to Boulez in the 50s where he explains all these new, at the time, ideas. Really a great historical document. Also, one has that Ligeti quote which says that his late music develops like an organism or community of them that evolve in natural history through natural selection. Of course, this implies a certain degree of chaos, but, at the end, the environment always win over the organisms, which have no other option than to adapt to it.

In that Piano Concerto piece of mine which I mentioned, a continuous melodic line in the right hand goes back and forth in register. The whole melody keeps ascending by transposition until it reachs the end of the keyboard. But the melody ascends even more. The result is that some of the higher notes are eliminated from the melody since they are out of the range of the instrument. This new mutated melody is taken then as the new melody and is developed. The whole process is as the natural selection process by the enviroment, only the final melody with cuts survives the enviroment from all the others melodies which were exact transpositions of the first one. The interesting thing is that these cuts introduce rather wild rhytmic patterns. These patters later create the polymeter section in the cadenza, and then the whole thing becomes even wilder! It was rather fun to compose and I feel somewhat pleased* with the result, since it incorporated the ideas in which I was interested at that time in a satisfying way (at least to me, of course).

*Of course, pleased to the rather short extent in which someone which does not compose in a professional manner can be, i.e., not really that much! :P
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 09:03:52 AM by aleazk »

Offline San Antonio

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1344 on: November 19, 2017, 09:12:46 AM »
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Kate Soper — Nadja

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Offline jessop

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1345 on: November 19, 2017, 05:56:28 PM »
How do YOU approach form in your pieces then?

It depends on the length of the piece and the deadline really! For things that are shorter than 5 minutes I usually just let a few ideas develop and spin out in a very intuitive way with no real regard to form. 5 to 10  minutes I try to have a couple of structural points as a kind of short term goal, where I can intuitively develop the relevant material up until those points. I haven't composed any single movement that is longer than 10 minutes, but if I had to I would take the idea of having structural points to work towards up another level. Dividing a piece up into smaller chunks is what I find most useful. When I know I have musical 'events' to work towards that is, say, 1'45" into the piece, then another at 3'30" then another at 5'15" and I eventually have to conclude the piece after about 10 minutes, I can see how the music will work logically on a macro level and taking elements of the structural points to intuitively develop on the micro level.

BTW, your piano concerto is really cool and as an ensemble piece it is much more well thought out and executed than a lot of student and professional works I come across. :)

Offline San Antonio

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1346 on: November 23, 2017, 04:49:42 AM »
Santiago Diez Fischer — three tales

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Piano (percussion): Alexandra Bellon
Clarinet: Marie Mercier
Cello: Esther Lefebvre

Offline San Antonio

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1347 on: November 29, 2017, 07:31:35 PM »
Panayiotis Kokoras — Conscious Sound

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Offline San Antonio

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1348 on: December 05, 2017, 07:52:04 AM »
Louis Goldford : composer of acoustic and electroacoustic music

Mémoire Involontaire (2017) for string quartet, performed by the JACK Quartet

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Offline vandermolen

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1349 on: December 05, 2017, 11:22:40 AM »
I enjoyed Paul Patterson's VC No.2 although it sounds like it was written in the 1940s rather than in 2013. Very approachable and lyrical in the spirit of Alwyn and L.Berkeley perhaps.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline jessop

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1350 on: December 05, 2017, 01:57:12 PM »
I enjoyed Paul Patterson's VC No.2 although it sounds like it was written in the 1940s rather than in 2013. Very approachable and lyrical in the spirit of Alwyn and L.Berkeley perhaps.
I've never heard of this composer.....whom did he study with and where? That could be an interesting insight into his style.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1351 on: December 06, 2017, 03:44:36 AM »
I've never heard of this composer.....whom did he study with and where? That could be an interesting insight into his style.

The CDs in my car but I'll get it later - here is some general info:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Patterson_(composer)

And here is his first VC with commentary from PP at the start. Not sure it will play 'down under' but if so it will give you an idea of his style. Worth exploring I think and thanks for your interest.
 :)
https://youtu.be/GDMu4S9o14s
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 03:49:10 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline milk

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1352 on: December 06, 2017, 06:10:31 AM »
I no longer compose classical music.  But I when I did, the form was an organic outgrowth from the thematic materials. 

I only write songs now, lyrics and music - stories in song.  I am constructing a group of connected songs covering the history of America from the earliest colonial settlements to the present through telling the histories of nine fictional families.
Sounds pretty cool!

Online k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1353 on: December 06, 2017, 06:25:51 AM »
I no longer compose classical music.  But I when I did, the form was an organic outgrowth from the thematic materials. 

I only write songs now, lyrics and music - stories in song.  I am constructing a group of connected songs covering the history of America from the earliest colonial settlements to the present through telling the histories of nine fictional families. 

Part of me thinks, Why fictional?  It would be more poignant, though it would also require research, to tell the story of nine actual families.

But then the practical part thinks, Do I really want to have to secure the now-necessary disclaimers/permission?
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline San Antonio

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1354 on: December 06, 2017, 07:03:39 AM »
Your interest is much appreciated!

Sounds pretty cool!

Thanks, I am having a good time.  Examples of the songs and background of people and places can be found here.

Part of me thinks, Why fictional?  It would be more poignant, though it would also require research, to tell the story of nine actual families.

But then the practical part thinks, Do I really want to have to secure the now-necessary disclaimers/permission?

A lot of reading has gone into my learning the history of the settlement of the region I am focusing on (about a 100 mile wide band of territory stretching from Dallas, Texas to the other side of Macon, Georgia with special focus on north Louisiana and Mississippi) but I also wanted to have the freedom of creating characters and events without being rooted in actual persons.

Online k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1355 on: December 06, 2017, 07:06:54 AM »
A lot of reading has gone into my learning the history of the settlement of the region I am focusing on (about a 100 mile wide band of territory stretching from Dallas, Texas to the other side of Macon, Georgia with special focus on north Louisiana and Mississippi) but I also wanted to have the freedom of creating characters and events without being rooted in actual persons.

Splendid.  Conquer!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline jessop

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1356 on: December 06, 2017, 03:25:56 PM »
The CDs in my car but I'll get it later - here is some general info:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Patterson_(composer)

And here is his first VC with commentary from PP at the start. Not sure it will play 'down under' but if so it will give you an idea of his style. Worth exploring I think and thanks for your interest.
 :)
https://youtu.be/GDMu4S9o14s


Thank you! I actually found it on youtube earlier as I was curious to hear it and some other works of his. It looks like he has done quite a lot for contemporary music in his area, which is great! Personally, there is a piece for harps which I like much more than the violin concerto. Have you heard it?

Offline jessop

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1357 on: December 06, 2017, 03:28:40 PM »
Cross post because sometimes it is nice to hear the music of someone early in their composition career. This composer is 25 this year.

Marianna Liik (b. 1992)



Adapt to prevailing stream and become able to see clearly (2017)
For flute, clarinet, piano, violin & cello

Ensemble Schallfeld

A delight to hear this! I enjoy the very gradual growth and change throughout the piece. Slow paced in that she spends quite a long time with an idea (be it a texture, an articulation or a timbre) before another idea comes into play, gradually coming to the fore.......so it is slow paced but very captivating.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/qyJrXHhXu70" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/qyJrXHhXu70</a>

Offline San Antonio

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1358 on: December 07, 2017, 08:06:28 AM »
Irene Galindo Quero : working along the threshold of music and language

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/O8GkKb7zDHk" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/O8GkKb7zDHk</a>

My interview with Irene.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: 21st century classical music
« Reply #1359 on: December 08, 2017, 02:01:49 AM »
Thank you! I actually found it on youtube earlier as I was curious to hear it and some other works of his. It looks like he has done quite a lot for contemporary music in his area, which is great! Personally, there is a piece for harps which I like much more than the violin concerto. Have you heard it?

No, not yet but I'll look out for it. The VC No.2 is more approachable than No.1 I think.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

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