Author Topic: Chopin's mazurkas  (Read 45141 times)

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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #100 on: September 21, 2019, 11:24:42 AM »
Here's what I thought when I last listened


Very interesting, thanks.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #101 on: September 21, 2019, 12:45:45 PM »
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Offline Forever Brett Kavanaugh

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #102 on: September 21, 2019, 12:54:36 PM »

Offline Brian

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #103 on: September 21, 2019, 04:47:08 PM »
Hmmmm... This is the first time I've heard anyone refer to ennui as a desirable thing.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #104 on: September 21, 2019, 08:31:03 PM »
My fav Mazurkas. The subtle performance offers ennui and darkness.


https://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Mazurkas-Other-Piano-Works/dp/B003QLY5JC/ref=tmm_acd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

Thanks for mentioning this, I’ve started to explore it. Two things strike me straight way. The first is the sweetness of the sound he makes, and the second is the naturalness of the rubato.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #105 on: September 21, 2019, 08:44:03 PM »
Hmmmm... This is the first time I've heard anyone refer to ennui as a desirable thing.

But Baudelaire makes it sound delightful

Quote
C'est l'Ennui! L'oeil chargé d'un pleur involontaire,
II rêve d'échafauds en fumant son houka.
Tu le connais, lecteur, ce monstre délicat,
— Hypocrite lecteur, — mon semblable, — mon frère!
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #106 on: September 21, 2019, 10:41:13 PM »
Here's what I thought when I last listened

Kind of agrees with my ow assessment.
"I compose music because I must give expression to my feelings, just as I talk because I must give utterance to my thoughts.”  --- Rachmaninoff

Offline Florestan

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #107 on: September 21, 2019, 10:44:05 PM »
But Baudelaire makes it sound delightful

Taken out of context, maybe. The full poem, though, makes it sound frightful.

La sottise, l'erreur, le péché, la lésine,
Occupent nos esprits et travaillent nos corps,
Et nous alimentons nos aimables remords,
Comme les mendiants nourrissent leur vermine.

Nos péchés sont têtus, nos repentirs sont lâches;
Nous nous faisons payer grassement nos aveux,
Et nous rentrons gaiement dans le chemin bourbeux,
Croyant par de vils pleurs laver toutes nos taches.

Sur l'oreiller du mal c'est Satan Trismégiste
Qui berce longuement notre esprit enchanté,
Et le riche métal de notre volonté
Est tout vaporisé par ce savant chimiste.

C'est le Diable qui tient les fils qui nous remuent!
Aux objets répugnants nous trouvons des appas;
Chaque jour vers l'Enfer nous descendons d'un pas,
Sans horreur, à travers des ténèbres qui puent.

Ainsi qu'un débauché pauvre qui baise et mange
Le sein martyrisé d'une antique catin,
Nous volons au passage un plaisir clandestin
Que nous pressons bien fort comme une vieille orange.

Serré, fourmillant, comme un million d'helminthes,
Dans nos cerveaux ribote un peuple de Démons,
Et, quand nous respirons, la Mort dans nos poumons
Descend, fleuve invisible, avec de sourdes plaintes.

Si le viol, le poison, le poignard, l'incendie,
N'ont pas encor brodé de leurs plaisants dessins
Le canevas banal de nos piteux destins,
C'est que notre âme, hélas! n'est pas assez hardie.

Mais parmi les chacals, les panthères, les lices,
Les singes, les scorpions, les vautours, les serpents,
Les monstres glapissants, hurlants, grognants, rampants,
Dans la ménagerie infâme de nos vices,

II en est un plus laid, plus méchant, plus immonde!
Quoiqu'il ne pousse ni grands gestes ni grands cris,
Il ferait volontiers de la terre un débris
Et dans un bâillement avalerait le monde;

C'est l'Ennui! L'oeil chargé d'un pleur involontaire,
II rêve d'échafauds en fumant son houka.
Tu le connais, lecteur, ce monstre délicat,
— Hypocrite lecteur, — mon semblable, — mon frère!
"I compose music because I must give expression to my feelings, just as I talk because I must give utterance to my thoughts.”  --- Rachmaninoff

Offline JBS

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #108 on: September 22, 2019, 04:06:30 AM »
Am I the only one here to have heard Vladimir Feltsman's new recording.

On one listen, I found it superficial.  On another listen, I thought it was full of emotional heft.  Obviously my mood for the day must have been the deciding factor.

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Offline Forever Brett Kavanaugh

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #109 on: September 22, 2019, 04:48:34 AM »
Thanks for mentioning this, I’ve started to explore it. Two things strike me straight way. The first is the sweetness of the sound he makes, and the second is the naturalness of the rubato.

Yes silky, sensual sound with delicate touch. Liberal, if not excessive, use of rubato. I hope you like the recording.

Offline Forever Brett Kavanaugh

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #110 on: September 22, 2019, 04:54:47 AM »
Talking about Ennui, Ott’s Waltzes (not Mazurkas) present somehow oblique aestheticism with sensitivity and melancholy.

Chopin: Complete Waltzes https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002WHTGC2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_wX3HDbD5A3GHC
« Last Edit: September 22, 2019, 05:51:49 AM by Forever Electoral College »

Offline Que

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #111 on: September 22, 2019, 05:27:03 AM »
Sofar, two pianists have impressed me the most: Arthur Rubinstein and...


Q

Offline Forever Brett Kavanaugh

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #112 on: September 22, 2019, 10:32:51 AM »
Another one I care.

Chopin Assorted Mazurkas. (Iddo Bar-Shai Piano. Total Time: 78') https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001HBW31U/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_tW8HDbNBTV32K

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #113 on: September 22, 2019, 11:56:01 AM »
Another one I care.

Chopin Assorted Mazurkas. (Iddo Bar-Shai Piano. Total Time: 78') https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001HBW31U/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_tW8HDbNBTV32K

I think that’s a bit too self conscious for me.


Talking about Ennui, Ott’s Waltzes (not Mazurkas) present somehow oblique aestheticism with sensitivity and melancholy.

Chopin: Complete Waltzes https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002WHTGC2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_wX3HDbD5A3GHC

Yes, rather nice especially in the middle sections. Are you Ok with the recording? It sounds very close, maybe it’s just the equipment Im using.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2019, 12:00:44 PM by Mandryka »
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Offline Forever Brett Kavanaugh

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #114 on: September 23, 2019, 08:40:30 AM »
Yes I like the B minor waltz. The left microphone is very close to the piano.

Yes, rather nice especially in the middle sections. Are you Ok with the recording? It sounds very close, maybe it’s just the equipment Im using.

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #115 on: September 23, 2019, 09:12:43 AM »
Thanks for sharing this, Q. Interesting the recording dates listed on the back, as some Googling shows that he died in 1977, yet the recordings on 70% of CD 01 are listed as being from 1977 and the rest are listed as being from 1978! Must be a typo?

If the twofer of Dante is the same recording, then the recording date must be 1958.
Could that be possible? An early stereo recording?

https://www.melomania.com/en/51-mazurkas-49842/s


Offline Mandryka

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #116 on: September 23, 2019, 09:28:02 AM »
If the twofer of Dante is the same recording, then the recording date must be 1958.
Could that be possible? An early stereo recording?

https://www.melomania.com/en/51-mazurkas-49842/s

Listen first before you buy here to see if it's your sort of thing

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/lLi2uwGOYBg" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/lLi2uwGOYBg</a>
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 09:31:20 AM by Mandryka »
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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #117 on: September 23, 2019, 09:45:49 AM »
Listen first before you buy here to see if it's your sort of thing

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/lLi2uwGOYBg" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/lLi2uwGOYBg</a>

No, the sound and performance are just fine, I know that.

But I was wondering about the recording date. Since Flier died in 1977, the recording date (1978) of a large part of Que's Amazon-link 2-cd must be wrong.
The Dante twofer on Melomania speaks of 1958 as recording year, and I'm not sure whether Russia already delivered stereo recordings before the 1960s.
Also, the Amazon link is an issue of Melodiya. Did Melodiya already exist in 1958?

So: are the Dante and Melodiya 2 different recordings (maybe mono and stereo)?
If so, then the recording dates of the Melodiya issue are incorrect.

If they are the same recordings though, then the Dante recording date might be incorrect, unless they were already recording in very good stereo quality in the USSR, Anno Domini 1958.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #118 on: September 23, 2019, 10:50:02 AM »
No, the sound and performance are just fine, I know that.

But I was wondering about the recording date. Since Flier died in 1977, the recording date (1978) of a large part of Que's Amazon-link 2-cd must be wrong.
The Dante twofer on Melomania speaks of 1958 as recording year, and I'm not sure whether Russia already delivered stereo recordings before the 1960s.
Also, the Amazon link is an issue of Melodiya. Did Melodiya already exist in 1958?

So: are the Dante and Melodiya 2 different recordings (maybe mono and stereo)?
If so, then the recording dates of the Melodiya issue are incorrect.

If they are the same recordings though, then the Dante recording date might be incorrect, unless they were already recording in very good stereo quality in the USSR, Anno Domini 1958.

If Flier's mazurkas were recorded in 1958 and not 1977, I'm a Dutchman.
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Offline JBS

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #119 on: September 23, 2019, 11:25:04 AM »
Melodiya was officially formed in 1964, but as the state run monopoly it seems it had access to all archived recordings made before then. So it could have issued 1958 recordings. And the state of stereo technology was advanced enough in the late 1950s to make it plausible that Soviet recording engineers were experimenting with it by then.

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