Topic: Blind Comparison: Mahler Symphony no.1

[Daverz]

I don't think it's a vendetta. He's merely reporting negatively about recordings that actually aren't very good. 

What I'm talking about has nothing really to do with the actual quality of the recordings, but with the way Hurwitz expresses himself and goes out of his way to make sure everyone -- including IIRC Horenstein fans and relatives on the Horenstein listserv -- knows that Horenstein stank, and they're deluded fools if they don't realize this.  And this is not the only case in which he'll attack the fans of the conductor or artist.

And it goes along with the "Kathleen Ferrier as fruit basket" stuff, that is obviously just trying to get a rise out of people in the most childish way imaginable.

[johndoe21ro]

Grown ups fighting over critics, conductors and music. What's wrong with you, guys? I think Sarge's point is as good as it gets. Anyone here thinks he's better than Hurwitz? Anyone more prejudice-free? This thread is becoming a war against Hurwitz. C'mon guys... Praise Daniel for his effort and stop fighting. The long journey has ended well and we all should have a big smile on our faces. It was a beautiful experience.

[xochitl]

ummm...

i just heard farberman's M1 and it's really great.

[Brian]

Grown ups fighting over critics, conductors and music. What's wrong with you, guys? I think Sarge's point is as good as it gets. Anyone here thinks he's better than Hurwitz? Anyone more prejudice-free? This thread is becoming a war against Hurwitz. C'mon guys... Praise Daniel for his effort and stop fighting. The long journey has ended well and we all should have a big smile on our faces. It was a beautiful experience.

Agreed. We can all argue about Hurwitz ad infinitum (and, in many cases, never quite rise above his level), but the real point here is, this game was fantastic, it was a load of fun, Daniel took good care of us, and I enjoyed some very happy surprises. Cheers!

[madaboutmahler]

Thank you! I'm really glad you enjoyed it, it was a pleasure to put together!

Hope you will enjoy the Berlioz too! I'm really glad to see that so many of you have signed up for that too!

[DavidRoss]

Grown ups fighting over critics, conductors and music. What's wrong with you, guys? I think Sarge's point is as good as it gets. Anyone here thinks he's better than Hurwitz? Anyone more prejudice-free? This thread is becoming a war against Hurwitz. C'mon guys... Praise Daniel for his effort and stop fighting. The long journey has ended well and we all should have a big smile on our faces. It was a beautiful experience.

Fighting? Who's fighting? People are just expressing their opinions. I don't think Hurwitz warrants the time it would require to read through his reviews and cite passages showing that he is prejudiced and inconsistent regarding MTT.  But even if I did, Sarge and I still would not be fighting, but only offering conflicting opinions.

Fighting does erupt around here sometimes, but far less often than it used to. Don't worry, you'll recognize it when you see it!

And if you stick around you'll soon discover that Hurwitz-bashing is a faorite pastime at GMG (and every similar site I know) and that many folks here (and elsewhere) are easily able to "do better" -- and several do!

[Beale]

And if you stick around you'll soon discover that Hurwitz-bashing is a faorite pastime at GMG (and every similar site I know) and that many folks here (and elsewhere) are easily able to "do better" -- and several do!

If only I know this earlier ... well, lets hope GMG is kinder to March, Greenfield and Layton. 

[mc ukrneal]

If only I know this earlier ... well, lets hope GMG is kinder to March, Greenfield and Layton. 

Reviewers take a beating - part of the job. If they are successful in the business (regardless of whether they are good reviews or not), they write so much that it is inevitable they will write something with which someone disagrees. Hurwitz is at least characterful - check out his (insane 9-page) review on Norrington's Mahler. Oh, but get out the popcorn first - you'll need it (one way or another)!

[Daverz]

If only I know this earlier ... well, lets hope GMG is kinder to March, Greenfield and Layton. 

I'd take Hurwitz over those deaf old bats any day.

[xochitl]

lol

[DavidRoss]

Last Saturday I listened to Lenny's DGG M1 -- the whole thing -- and loved it. Today I listened to Kubelik's DGG M1 -- the whole thing -- and loved it. But neither recording fared well when I was listening to sample clips and comparing them with other sample clips during this survey. Evaluating a symphony performance by snippets is like evaluating a potential life partner based on seeing his/her tax return from 2004, left ankle, dental records, and 6th grade citizenship report.

That is not to devalue the exercise, only to contextualize it. Wholes may not only be greater than the sum of their parts, but the parts might not even offer a reliable guide to the big picture.

This exercise has not caused me to dismiss any of my old faves even if they fared poorly. However, it did cause me to purchase two M1s I never would have considered otherwise -- Norrington & Solti/CSO -- and to schedule an attentive hearing for Jansons's M1 and all his other Mahler discs, too.

Heretofore I've been lukewarm toward Jansons's Mahler, regarding it similar to Chailly's Mahler, finding little to fault with it, but also little that's exciting (having heard only Jansons's RCO 1 & 5, LSO 6, & Oslo 9). But hearing his M1 along with the other final 4 was exciting and I rated it virtually tied for top place with the only one of my tried & true faves to make the final five (MTT).

All of this makes me wonder just how relevant such exercises are to our normal listening habits. When I listen normally, especially to a piece that I know and love, I sit back in a highly receptive frame of mind, willing the music to carry me away with it. But when I am listening "critically," I'm picking and choosing certain elements to focus my attention on -- usually things that are easy to isolate and describe -- and in the process I might be unable to grasp the gestalt of the work. Maslow's marvelous hammer and nail analogy applies.

Still, it's been a useful and entertaining exercise. I'm grateful to Daniel for setting it up, grateful to the other participants for their comments, and I look forward to the next one!

[xochitl]

the thing i learned with this exercise is that the recordings i respond to more let me [no, make me] put my critical mind away and just enjoy the music.

if i'm nitpicking and comparing as i listen i probably wont hear it again

[aukhawk]

Having only two oldish versions in my collection - Solti/LSO (which wasn't in the comparison, but I still like it) and Bernstein on DGG (which I don't like very much) - having read through this thread I recently bought the Honeck, and am very glad I did. 
The 1st movement is a real eye-opener, radically changed my view of this music.  I probably still prefer Solti in the remaining 3 movements, but the sound on the newer recording is just luxurious and for me, that's quite an important consideration in the Mahler 'sound world'.

[DavidRoss]

Hello, aukhawk (Frankie?). I'm pleased to make your acquaintance and to welcome you to GMG. And I hope you'll stick around to participate in Daniel's next Mahler comparison ... or the Sibelius comparison, if he decides to do one of those first.

[aukhawk]

Ooh, yes please  <thumbs up>