Author Topic: Chopin Recordings  (Read 246176 times)

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Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Chopin Recordings
« Reply #1380 on: July 26, 2016, 01:37:17 PM »
Both are on Spotify

Thanks Holden - I'm on my son's Spotify subscription, so will plan some listening to De Maria's WTC - Dave :)

Offline Todd

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Re: Chopin Recordings
« Reply #1381 on: July 26, 2016, 04:37:12 PM »


Did anyone listen to it? Any opinions? I have it and imo it's one of the finest. Very good reviews on Amazon as well.


Yes, it's very good overall, if variable, like any complete set of anything.  Best First Sonata I've heard.  I enjoy the collections of smaller works relatively more than the big works (Scherzi, Ballades).



do I yet need another piano version of the WTC?


I say yes.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Everything dies - Alien Bounty Hunter, The X-Files

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Offline Holden

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Re: Chopin Recordings
« Reply #1382 on: July 26, 2016, 06:09:03 PM »
I have Richter, Feinberg and Gulda so I don't really need another set.
Cheers

Holden

Offline GioCar

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Re: Chopin Recordings
« Reply #1383 on: July 26, 2016, 07:18:46 PM »
...now I did leave a number of posts but likely in other threads (if interested, go to the general search box and enter Chopin & my user name)....


Thanks for the hint  :)

Offline GioCar

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Re: Chopin Recordings
« Reply #1384 on: July 26, 2016, 07:31:38 PM »

Yes, it's very good overall, if variable, like any complete set of anything.  Best First Sonata I've heard.  I enjoy the collections of smaller works relatively more than the big works (Scherzi, Ballades).


Yes, I agree. I was also deep impressed by his nocturnes. A bit less by his préludes.
I live in Italy, and here Pollini is God for Chopin. This young pianist - no longer very young I believe - stands well higher than (the late) Pollini, at least for Chopin.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 05:39:31 AM by GioCar »

Offline Todd

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Re: Chopin Recordings
« Reply #1385 on: July 27, 2016, 04:45:55 AM »
This young pianist - no longer very young I believe



He's pushing 50, so not young at all.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Everything dies - Alien Bounty Hunter, The X-Files

Everyone dies - William Barr, United States Attorney General

Offline amw

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Re: Chopin Recordings
« Reply #1386 on: September 18, 2016, 12:50:35 AM »


always on the lookout for a high quality recording of the Third Sonata. Anyone heard this? New release

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Chopin Recordings
« Reply #1387 on: September 18, 2016, 01:58:32 AM »


always on the lookout for a high quality recording of the Third Sonata. Anyone heard this? New release

Gosh it's a cool cover. I wonder if anyone has done a Ph.D on how record companies build musicians' images.

Yes I've heard the op 58. Lipatti sounds overwrought and maudlin by comparison to Moog.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2016, 02:01:13 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline amw

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Re: Chopin Recordings
« Reply #1388 on: September 18, 2016, 04:28:29 AM »
Lipatti would anyway be out of the question due to skipping the first movement repeat.

I located Moog on a streaming service and listened to the first and second movements. He's definitely not bad. Still not sure he's the one I've been looking for, but this is very competent piano playing, for sure.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Chopin Recordings
« Reply #1389 on: September 18, 2016, 04:30:09 AM »
, but this is very competent piano playing, for sure.

This is what I feel, but whether it's more than very good typing , , , I'm not sure.
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Offline George

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Re: Chopin Recordings
« Reply #1390 on: September 18, 2016, 04:58:27 AM »
Lipatti would anyway be out of the question due to skipping the first movement repeat.

I located Moog on a streaming service and listened to the first and second movements. He's definitely not bad. Still not sure he's the one I've been looking for, but this is very competent piano playing, for sure.

Have you heard Rosenthal?
"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure

Offline amw

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Re: Chopin Recordings
« Reply #1391 on: September 18, 2016, 05:03:00 AM »
update: compared with Argerich on DG and... yeah.

Thing with Op. 58 is (a) large-scale phrasing and (b) motivic linking. This applies especially in the first movement, which is a full sonata form in Chopin's mature style, which means the phrasing is always incredibly complex with tons of dovetailing, overlapping, phrases being "out of phase" between the hands, lots of flexibility in extensions and contractions of phrase lengths, etc. (Not as extreme as the Cello Sonata or the 4th Ballade in this case, but still kind of a lot.) The other thing is that the "first theme" of this sonata form never comes back in the second half (which is why the repeat is so important, in part) and doesn't need to because its motives become part of the texture and are organically and intricately linked to all of the other major themes, never in a really obvious way but always so that the first theme is constantly at the back of one's mind.

These features of Chopin's music he got from study of Bach, and looking at Joseph Moog's discography he doesn't seem to have recorded any (maybe he plays it in concert though idk). I think that kind of shows a little: very nice playing but like, the dualities and ambiguities of the phrases never seem to come into play. Everything is pretty straightforward even with his necessary romantic affectations, and the relations between themes are rarely brought out, so it seems a bit superficial.

Martha is of course all over the place, pulls the music around unmercifully and messes with the tempo a ridiculous amount. I don't know whether people generally like or dislike it. (I like it; sets a high water mark, but also not The One.) (Also it is really hard to believe this recording quality was considered professional at any point in time. I probably could have made a better one in my bathroom, if there was room for a piano in there.) But it's always with this apparent knowledge of the complexity of the phrasing, which she follows or pushes against as her conception of the work dictates. I feel like that's the thing that tends to separate the good recordings from the average ones: this awareness of just how much is going on "below the surface" as it were.

edit: and no, don't know Rosenthal, but also I don't know most of the recordings of this piece to be fair.

Offline Pat B

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Re: Chopin Recordings
« Reply #1392 on: September 21, 2016, 03:39:26 PM »
update: compared with Argerich on DG and... yeah.

...(Also it is really hard to believe this recording quality was considered professional at any point in time. I probably could have made a better one in my bathroom, if there was room for a piano in there.)

There are 3 Argerich recordings (not counting bootlegs):
June 1965 on EMI ("The Legendary 1965 Recording," a strange title since it was long suppressed)
January 1967 on DG
March 1967, a radio broadcast, but eventually released by DG in 2010 on "Argerich Plays Chopin"

I suspect you heard the last one. (It doesn't sound that bad to me but there is no ambiance.) You might try one of the others -- they're all on spotify.

Offline Jo498

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Re: Chopin Recordings
« Reply #1393 on: September 21, 2016, 09:57:35 PM »
The Argerich DG sounds good in my ears but it is also very fast. I am by no means knowledgeable about this piece (and insisting on the repeat rules out many of the most famous/historical recordings like Rubinstein, Cziffra, Francois....) but for supreme clarity and seriousness you could try Gilels/DG although I just checked, the repeat is not included. Maybe there is a different older/live Gilels with repeat? (he does all repeats in his Beethoven/DG, so)
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
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Against the drums of dawn.
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Offline amw

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Re: Chopin Recordings
« Reply #1394 on: September 21, 2016, 11:49:36 PM »
This one which I think is January 1967. I don't know the "Argerich Plays Chopin" one, can listen.

The January 1967 one is indeed very fast—too fast for Allegro maestoso, in my view. Alexis Weissenberg plays it at about the same tempo and also feels too fast. An "ideal" time for the movement seems to be about 12 minutes which is part of why I was interested in the Joseph Moog recording (that and he's definitely not bad in Tchaikovsky and Grieg and such). 13-14 minute recordings (e.g. Pires, Arrau, Andsnes) always seem to end up slowing down slightly too much in the 2nd theme and losing momentum though if there's one that doesn't, I'm up for it.

Offline Jo498

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Re: Chopin Recordings
« Reply #1395 on: September 22, 2016, 12:09:29 AM »
Gilels takes about 11 min WITHOUT repeat, it is very slow. I don't quite remember Pollini's (have it in a box I got for other stuff and might have listened to it only once or never...) but he is at 12:50 and while 1980s Pollini could be too cool I would expect reasonable clarity.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline amw

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Re: Chopin Recordings
« Reply #1396 on: September 22, 2016, 12:39:51 AM »
Pollini's certainly competent. His recording for some reason didn't make a massive impression on me and I don't remember why, or whether there was anything "wrong" with it. Probably need to revisit eventually.

Gilels is indeed super slow. (There's an older live Gilels without repeat that's even slower.) A bit too maestoso and not enough allegro. I have limited interest in Alexander Paley's 17 minute recording of the first movement for the same reason.

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Re: Chopin Recordings
« Reply #1397 on: September 22, 2016, 02:21:23 AM »
...and insisting on the repeat rules out many of the most famous/historical recordings like Rubinstein, Cziffra, Francois....

Of about 15 recordings I have only 3 play the repeat: Argerich on DG (not on EMI), Weissenberg and Hamelin. First two are pretty fast but Hamelin might be what amw is looking for.

I have limited interest in Alexander Paley's 17 minute recording of the first movement for the same reason.

You could try Sokolov bootleg (in good sound) on youtube. He takes 15:20, plays the repeat and even uses some alternative edition of the score.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUx9ksaWiy8
« Last Edit: September 22, 2016, 02:23:37 AM by Draško »

Offline amw

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Re: Chopin Recordings
« Reply #1398 on: September 22, 2016, 02:57:26 AM »
12-13 minutes is probably ideal for a first movement with repeat but on the other hand Sokolov's recording of the Op. 25 Etudes is probably my favourite. I'll check him out. I think I decided against Hamelin ages ago but don't remember why (would have had to buy his recording since it's not up for streaming, and that's money)

Offline George

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Re: Chopin Recordings
« Reply #1399 on: September 22, 2016, 06:28:40 AM »
Amw - have you listened to Anievas play the third sonata on EMI?
"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure