Author Topic: Vaughan Williams's Veranda  (Read 256923 times)

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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #2900 on: December 06, 2017, 05:42:22 PM »
I had 'Rhosymedre' (the second of the Welsh Hymn Tune Preludes) played on the organ when I got married. I had to have some VW performed.  :)

Exactly the same here: Rhosymedre, at the Garrels/Meere organ of the St. Jacob's Church ("Jacobi') in Utrecht, when I got married, in 2003. (I think we shared this wonderful coincidence before?)  ;D

Great to hear, guys. Welsh Hymn-Tune Preludes is a beautiful work. I take it both of you guys know Two Hymn-Tune Preludes, though?
"In the next world, I shan't be doing music, with all the striving and disappointments. I shall be being it.Ē - Ralph Vaughan Williams

Offline Biffo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #2901 on: December 07, 2017, 06:42:54 AM »
In addition to the Two Hymn Tune Preludes (for small orchestra) on the Hickox album above, RVW also wrote Two Organ Preludes founded on Welsh Folk Songs - No 1 Toccata 'St David's Day and No 2 Romanza 'The White Rock' - I assume these are what Mirror Image is referring to.

They are available on the RVW Society disc 'Bursts of Acclamation' - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bursts-Acclamation-Complete-Vaughan-Williams/dp/B00WUFBROG/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1512657733&sr=1-1&keywords=vaughan+williams+bursts+of+acclamation
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 06:44:36 AM by Biffo »

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #2902 on: December 07, 2017, 06:55:18 AM »
In addition to the Two Hymn Tune Preludes (for small orchestra) on the Hickox album above, RVW also wrote Two Organ Preludes founded on Welsh Folk Songs - No 1 Toccata 'St David's Day and No 2 Romanza 'The White Rock' - I assume these are what Mirror Image is referring to.

They are available on the RVW Society disc 'Bursts of Acclamation' - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bursts-Acclamation-Complete-Vaughan-Williams/dp/B00WUFBROG/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1512657733&sr=1-1&keywords=vaughan+williams+bursts+of+acclamation

I believe it was our Karl who was misremembering what the work was?

Ah, those I have not heard at all.  What I thought you meant were the Three Preludes on Welsh Hymn Tunes, e.g.:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/auJz2LmD-9k" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/auJz2LmD-9k</a>

The Welsh Hymn Tune Preludes have been a staple of parish organists forever, and justly so.
"In the next world, I shan't be doing music, with all the striving and disappointments. I shall be being it.Ē - Ralph Vaughan Williams

Offline Biffo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #2903 on: December 07, 2017, 07:49:37 AM »
I believe it was our Karl who was misremembering what the work was?

Yes, but you wrote ' I take it both of you guys know Two Hymn-Tune Preludes, though?' - that is what I was referring to.

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #2904 on: December 07, 2017, 08:52:58 AM »
Yes, but you wrote ' I take it both of you guys know Two Hymn-Tune Preludes, though?' - that is what I was referring to.

Yes, but that was in reference to my initial post about the Two Hymn-Tune Preludes, which is a work for orchestra. :)

Hence:

Even thought itís a miniature, which usually are viewed as unsubstantial, I absolutely adore the Two Hymn-Tune Preludes. Does anyone else know this beautiful little gem?
"In the next world, I shan't be doing music, with all the striving and disappointments. I shall be being it.Ē - Ralph Vaughan Williams

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #2905 on: December 07, 2017, 11:16:23 AM »
Exactly the same here: Rhosymedre, at the Garrels/Meere organ of the St. Jacob's Church ("Jacobi') in Utrecht, when I got married, in 2003. (I think we shared this wonderful coincidence before?)  ;D

We did indeed but I'd forgotten - nice to be reminded of this happy coincidence.
In my case the organ was played at Christ Church, Ottershaw (see below) which, that day, had a 50% Jewish congregation.


St Jacobs Church, Ghent is much grander and very impressive.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 11:21:44 AM by vandermolen »
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Offline Christo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #2906 on: December 07, 2017, 01:35:58 PM »
St Jacobs Church, Ghent is much grander and very impressive.
It was the St Jacob's Church ('Jacobi') in my hometown, Utrecht, not Ghent; actually my own church - and filled with the indescrible collection of people that happen to know us. :-) The 18th century organ is very fine and in the hands of an artist:

And now back to Vaughan Williams - who would've preferred yours, in Ottershaw, I guess.  :D
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Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #2907 on: December 07, 2017, 01:44:44 PM »
It was the St Jacob's Church ('Jacobi') in my hometown, Utrecht, not Ghent; actually my own church - and filled with the indescrible collection of people that happen to know us. :-) The 18th century organ is very fine and in the hands of an artist:

And now back to Vaughan Williams - who would've preferred yours, in Ottershaw, I guess.  :D

Very nice church I must say. I went to a concert including Sancta Civitas some years ago in the church where VW and Adeline got married in Hove East Sussex.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #2908 on: December 09, 2017, 08:07:00 AM »
Has anyone heard the new Elder recording of Symphonies Nos. 4 & 6? I bought this disc upon release, but havenít listened to it yet.



Itís received some good press, although Hurwitz didnít think much of it. The MusicWeb review seemed to have though highly of it:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/Sep/VW_sys_CDHLL7547.htm

Overall, for me, Elderís RVW traversal has been a mixed bag. His performances of Symphony No. 5 and A London Symphony havenít impressed me much whereas A Pastoral Symphony, A Sea Symphony, and Symphony No. 8 received good (Symphony No. 8) to superb (A Pastoral Symphony) performances. I suppose Iíll dig into this new recording at some point this weekend.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 08:20:42 AM by Mirror Image »
"In the next world, I shan't be doing music, with all the striving and disappointments. I shall be being it.Ē - Ralph Vaughan Williams

Offline Biffo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #2909 on: December 10, 2017, 01:59:41 AM »
Has anyone heard the new Elder recording of Symphonies Nos. 4 & 6? I bought this disc upon release, but havenít listened to it yet.



Itís received some good press, although Hurwitz didnít think much of it. The MusicWeb review seemed to have though highly of it:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/Sep/VW_sys_CDHLL7547.htm

Overall, for me, Elderís RVW traversal has been a mixed bag. His performances of Symphony No. 5 and A London Symphony havenít impressed me much whereas A Pastoral Symphony, A Sea Symphony, and Symphony No. 8 received good (Symphony No. 8) to superb (A Pastoral Symphony) performances. I suppose Iíll dig into this new recording at some point this weekend.

I found No 4 a disappointment - not incisive enough, No 6 fared better but not a first choice. I have enjoyed all the other issues in this series so far with the Sea Symphony and No 8 being the highlights.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #2910 on: December 10, 2017, 02:54:26 AM »
I found No 4 a disappointment - not incisive enough, No 6 fared better but not a first choice. I have enjoyed all the other issues in this series so far with the Sea Symphony and No 8 being the highlights.

I largely agree with Biffo although No.3 is my favourite in this series do far.
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #2911 on: December 10, 2017, 07:07:17 AM »
Thanks guys, I listened to both of Elderís performances of these symphonies last night and found both of the performances disappointing. They need more fire, Maestro Elder! They are war symphonies after all. Maybe not Ďwarí explicitly, but thereís a turbulence in each of these works that does make me think that war was on RVWís mind when he was composing these symphonies.
"In the next world, I shan't be doing music, with all the striving and disappointments. I shall be being it.Ē - Ralph Vaughan Williams

Offline relm1

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #2912 on: December 10, 2017, 07:24:51 AM »
Thanks guys, I listened to both of Elderís performances of these symphonies last night and found both of the performances disappointing. They need more fire, Maestro Elder! They are war symphonies after all. Maybe not Ďwarí explicitly, but thereís a turbulence in each of these works that does make me think that war was on RVWís mind when he was composing these symphonies.

Which would you say is the best recording/performance of both these works?  One's with fire in droves?  I always thought the Adrian Boult/London Philharmonic recordings of these two were white hot.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 07:39:48 AM by relm1 »

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #2913 on: December 10, 2017, 08:00:48 AM »
Which would you say is the best recording/performance of both these works?  One's with fire in droves?  I always thought the Adrian Boult/London Philharmonic recordings of these two were white hot.

I agree with you: Boult, especially the Decca performances. Add Bernstein in the Fourth.

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Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #2914 on: December 10, 2017, 08:15:54 AM »
Which would you say is the best recording/performance of both these works?  One's with fire in droves?  I always thought the Adrian Boult/London Philharmonic recordings of these two were white hot.

Without a doubt Boult's LPO/Decca recording of Symphony 6.
Thomson is good too.

For No.4 I'd say Berglund (whose Sibelian No.6 is IMHO one of the few successful recordings of that turbulent score) although Bernstein and Mitropolous are very good as well. Boult's LPO version is a bit handicapped by the recording but if you like Boult's objective approach with VW I'd opt for his later EMI/Warner recording which is terrific. Many people rate VW himself as best of all in Symphony 4 but I prefer his recording of Symphony 5.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 08:19:06 AM by vandermolen »
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Offline Biffo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #2915 on: December 10, 2017, 08:58:31 AM »
For me the composer's own recording is by far the best, surpassing all others in in drama and intensity; for a modern recording I go for Previn, my long standing favourite. For No 6 it has to be another vintage recording, Boult and the LSO in 1949 (Dutton); for a modern recording I am not sure though Boult's recording with the New Philharmonia was my standby for many years. After I bought the latter, someone 'in the know' told me I should have gone for Previn for the 'fireworks'. Previn's is a fine recording though I didn't hear it until it came out in the complete cycle box on CD.
« Last Edit: Today at 02:35:17 AM by Biffo »

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #2916 on: December 10, 2017, 09:03:15 AM »
Which would you say is the best recording/performance of both these works?  One's with fire in droves?  I always thought the Adrian Boult/London Philharmonic recordings of these two were white hot.

Boult on EMI and Previn for both symphonies. Outside of these two conductors: Bernstein is a favorite in the 4th along with Berglundís 4th (in addition to his 6th). Jeffrey and I have very similar tastes when it comes one of our favorite composers and our preferred performances. I have never warmed up to Haitink, Handley, Slatkin, Bakels/Daniel, or Davis as far as the complete cycles go. Thomsonís cycle has fallen a bit out of favor with me, although his performances are very good (some performances more so than others).
"In the next world, I shan't be doing music, with all the striving and disappointments. I shall be being it.Ē - Ralph Vaughan Williams

Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #2917 on: December 10, 2017, 09:15:17 AM »
Like other people here, I also like Berglund and Bernstein for #4. But this symphony has been lucky on record, I've never heard a performance I would consider bad.

I have a harder time with #6. I like Handley/RLPO and Boult/Philh. the most. I didn't like the much-praised A. Davis (too subdued). Previn is merely OK (I don't hear any "fireworks" in it, certainly not more than other recordings), and is handicapped by rather flat sonics. You need really good sound for this one - I heard the old Stokowski/NYPO version and was frustrated by it, because the intense performance was compromised by the poor sound.
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Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #2918 on: December 10, 2017, 09:36:31 AM »
Like other people here, I also like Berglund and Bernstein for #4. But this symphony has been lucky on record, I've never heard a performance I would consider bad.

I have a harder time with #6. I like Handley/RLPO and Boult/Philh. the most. I didn't like the much-praised A. Davis (too subdued). Previn is merely OK (I don't hear any "fireworks" in it, certainly not more than other recordings), and is handicapped by rather flat sonics. You need really good sound for this one - I heard the old Stokowski/NYPO version and was frustrated by it, because the intense performance was compromised by the poor sound.

In my view there are very few entirely successful performances of Symphony 6 on CD. Abravanel's Utah SO recording is a bit of a 'sleeper' and underestimated I think . No mention of Barbirolli yet but his Bavarian SO version is worth considering.
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #2919 on: December 10, 2017, 09:42:07 AM »
Like other people here, I also like Berglund and Bernstein for #4. But this symphony has been lucky on record, I've never heard a performance I would consider bad.

I have a harder time with #6. I like Handley/RLPO and Boult/Philh. the most. I didn't like the much-praised A. Davis (too subdued). Previn is merely OK (I don't hear any "fireworks" in it, certainly not more than other recordings), and is handicapped by rather flat sonics. You need really good sound for this one - I heard the old Stokowski/NYPO version and was frustrated by it, because the intense performance was compromised by the poor sound.

The more recent RCA remastering of the Previn set clears up a lot of the audio issues of the original releases. The 6th is a difficult work to find a good performance of that does it justice. Previn, Berglund, and Boult (EMI) are my preferences here. I know the Handley performance you mention, but have never really connected to his RVW symphony cycle. I find his cycle to be recorded rather well, but thereís something missing in his interpretations. It may be his level of enthusiasm or the rather staid manner in which he performs these works but I have a difficult time appreciating his approach. It took some time for me to finally figure out what exactly I prefer in these symphonies and this is after living with them for eight years, but I believe I finally found what it is I admire and what I donít enjoy in performances of these works.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 09:43:57 AM by Mirror Image »
"In the next world, I shan't be doing music, with all the striving and disappointments. I shall be being it.Ē - Ralph Vaughan Williams

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