Author Topic: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc  (Read 10070 times)

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Offline Mandryka

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Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
« on: August 10, 2013, 11:49:13 PM »
Please would you recommend some recordings for me?
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 09:59:00 PM by Mandryka »
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Offline Sammy

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Re: Antonio de Cabezón
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2013, 08:46:52 AM »
I love this 2-cd set of organ works on the Motette label (performances on 6 different historical organs):



Offline Mandryka

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Re: Antonio de Cabezón
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2013, 12:07:04 PM »
Thanks, I will try to hear it soon.
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Offline Sammy

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Re: Antonio de Cabezón
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2013, 12:45:21 PM »
JPC has 16 audio samples.  I do caution that the samples can only give a little taste of the full flavor of these works.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Antonio de Cabezón
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2013, 02:44:45 AM »
These are the disc which I found on spotify which got me interested in Cabezón



« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 05:00:56 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline petrarch

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Re: Antonio de Cabezón
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2013, 04:27:37 PM »
I am quite fond of this one:



...and am eagerly waiting for this:

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Offline Que

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Re: Antonio de Cabezón
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2013, 10:51:09 PM »
The organ set on Motette that Sammy recommended is on my shopping list, as is the harpsichord set by Glen Wilson on Naxos.

Meanwhile I can recommend this (reissue - previously on Symphonia)



Stunning! :)

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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Antonio de Cabezón
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2013, 11:23:03 AM »
Antonio de Cabezón has not been that well served by recording artists. Other than a few pieces in collections by e.g. F. Chapelet and M. Torrent,  until a few months ago I only owned three exclusively Cabezón CDs, which are an organ CD (Valois) with Kimberly Marshall and the two CDs with ensemble arrangements by Savall (Virgin) and Ensemble Accentus (Naxos) respectively.  I haven´t purchased the three Cabezón CDs with Uriol, because they are rather expensive and not the least because I own another CD with Iberian organ music by Uriol, which is utterly boring. But a few months ago I acquired Astronio´s complete Obras de Música (Brilliant), Wilson´s three CDs (Naxos),  one harpsichord CD by Paola Erdas (Arcana) and one organ CD by Andrés Cea (Lindoro), and I have ordered but not yet received the three organ CDs by Uriol, on Don´s recommendation and the harpsichord CD by Baiano (Glossa) on the recommendation of  Que, and the ensemble CD by Doulce Memoire (Ricercare).

Listening to the Brilliant set with Astronio I am struck by the strictness and severity of the playing. It seems very monochrome, the predominant color being black. Astronio may have felt likewise, since he uses a variety of keyboard instruments obviously for variety, and  some of the pieces are arranged for small instrumental ensembles, but still the playing is very severe. The title of the work is Obras de Música para tecla, arpa y vihuela, but we hear neither harp nor vihuela, only keyboard instruments, winds and bowed strings. Wilsons three harpsichord CDs are played almost equally strict and severe, and seem even more so because of the use of only one harpsichord throughout.  Surely both Astronio and Wilson demonstrate that Cabezón was a great master of counterpoint and imitation, but there isn´t much more in their playing. Marshall´s and Cea´s CDs are much in the same league, competent but  rather strict and more reverential than severe. Paolo Erdas on the other hand is more free and adds more ornamentation, and even if I do not know, what Cabezón ´s performing style was like, Erda´s style makes more musical sense in my ears than the all too serious style of Astronio and Wilson. The ensemble CDs by Savall and Ensemble Accentus represent arrangements of keyboard music, and the general effect is much like ensemble arrangements of The Art of Fugue. From a superficial point of view the music is made more attractive and “charming” but its integrity is diminished. The sonically refined playing of Savall´s group is BTW captivating no matter which music they play, and the improvised and in my ears very stylish ornamentation and other additions by the Ensemble Accentus, particularly by the recorder player Michael Posch are very instructive. Except the CD by Paola Erdas I can not recommend the other completely without reservations. I have great expectations concerning the Baiano CD, as I think he has got lots of musical imagination (e,g, in his recordings of music by Frescobaldi, Froberger, Scarlatti).

« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 01:56:56 AM by (: premont :) »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Antonio de Cabezón
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2013, 10:42:36 PM »
I think the playing on the Ensemble Accentus  / Thomas Wimmer CD on Naxos is very attractive, not at all monochromatic and severe. I haven't had much luck appreciating harpsichordists play Canezón yet, except for the harpsichordist on that CD. So far it's my favourite Cabuzón disc, despite premont's worry about the musical integrity. I haven't heard Paola Erdas's CD yet, I know she's an interesting musician from her CD of D'Anglebert. I've also just started to listen to the Denis Raison Dadre CD that petrarch posted, I feel pretty positive about the harpsichord playing there too.

As far as solo keyboard works are concerned, I still await Don's recommended organ CD. I"m wondering, what (if any) are Cabezón's keyboard masterpieces. I know his variations were an  influence on important  writers for the keyboard. But did he himeself write a major work for the keyboard?

When I've done A/B comparisons between Glen Wilson and Enrico Baiano, my initial impression was that Wilson was more humane, Baiano more the virtuoso.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 12:20:39 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Antonio de Cabezón
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2013, 01:51:28 AM »
I think the playing on the Ensemble Accentus  / Thomas Wimmer CD on Naxos is very attractive, not at all monochromatic and severe. I haven't had much luck appreciating harpsichordists play Canezón yet, except for the harpsichordist on that CD. So far it's my favourite Cabuzón disc, despite premont's worry about the musical integrity. I haven't heard Paola Erdas's CD yet, I know she's an interesting musician from her CD of D'Anglebert. I've also just started to listen to the Denis Raison Dadre CD that petrarch posted, I feel pretty positive about the harpsichord playing there too.

As far as solo keyboard works are concerned, I still await Don's recommended organ CD. I"m wondering, what (if any) are Cabezón's keyboard masterpieces. I know his variations were an  influence on important  writers for the keyboard. But did he himeself write a major work for the keyboard?

When I've done A/B comparisons between Glen Wilson and Enrico Baiano, my initial impression was that Wilson was more humane, Baiano more the virtuoso.

I have not written, that I find Ensemble Accentus´interpretation monochromatic or severe. These words apply first and foremost to Astronio and Wilson.

I have not yet listened to Baiano, the postman delivered the CD 10 min. ago, but anyway I do not understand, what you mean calling Wilsons interpretation humane, compared to Baiano or not. IMO it is imbued with inhumane rigor, reminding me of the age of the Inquisition.

The surviving works of Cabezón are almost all keyboard works, and to my knowledge no major work has survived.

PS: Thanks for correcting my "serene" to "severe", this was of course what I meant.  :)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 01:58:46 AM by (: premont :) »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Antonio de Cabezón
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2013, 02:58:05 AM »
Yes, I knew you didn't think that Ensemble Accentus was monochromatic etc. Sorry for giving the wrong impression.

The two pieces I compared Baiano and Wilson in were Diferencias sobra la Pavana Italiana and Diferencias sobra le llano del Cavallero. I thought that Baiano starts off the Cavallero one really beautifully, when he presents the theme, but Wilson finds a touching poignancy in the middle of the piece that Baiano misses. I thought that Baiano was exciting in the Pavana Italiana, but Wilson more . . . humane.

Wilson's style is something which interests me here and in Byrd in fact. It's not obviously attractive, seductive. The harpsichord isn't sexy sounding or atmospherically recorded. He's not gentle and soothing. He doesn't wow you with virtuosity. He doesn't charm you by making the music sing. It's always serious and almost like a monument - he builds an imposing structure.

But recently, in just some of these Diferencias and also in some of the Byrd Fantasies, (mb 46 is an example) he's completely won me over by the emotions he expresses.

When you say that no major work has survived, do you mean that his real keyboard masterpieces are lost, that what we have are the relatively  minor works? I wonder if Sweelinck and Byrd, for example, wrote anything praising his keyboard writing.

Of course, ths could be just me. You never know how much your own mental state brings to the music. ;)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 03:36:41 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Antonio de Cabezón
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2013, 04:18:00 AM »
The two pieces I compared Baiano and Wilson in were Diferencias sobra la Pavana Italiana and Diferencias sobra le llano del Cavallero. I thought that Baiano starts off the Cavallero one really beautifully, when he presents the theme, but Wilson finds a touching poignancy in the middle of the piece that Baiano misses. I thought that Baiano was exciting in the Pavana Italiana, but Wilson more . . . humane.

Wilson's style is something which interests me here and in Byrd in fact. It's not obviously attractive, seductive. The harpsichord isn't sexy sounding or atmospherically recorded. He's not gentle and soothing. He doesn't wow you with virtuosity. He doesn't charm you by making the music sing. It's always serious and almost like a monument - he builds an imposing structure.

But recently, in just some of these Diferencias and also in some of the Byrd Fantasies, (mb 46 is an example) he's completely won me over by the emotions he expresses.

Wilson convinces me more in Byrd, or is it rather so that Byrd´s music stands Wilson´s strict style better than Cabezón´s. I shall not hide, that I find Byrd´s music more appealing and accessible than Cabezón´s.
A propos Byrd mb 46, I recently listened to Bertrand Cuillers version (Alpha) and was completely overwhelmed by his profound expression.

Quote from: Mandryka
When you say that no major work has survived, do you mean that his real keyboard masterpieces are lost, that what we have are the relatively  minor works? I wonder if Sweelinck and Byrd, for example, wrote anything praising his keyboard writing.

Considering what has survived, I am convinced, that major works also would have survived, so it is tempting to think, that he did not write any major works.

Quote from: Mandryka
Of course, this could be just me. You never know how much your own mental state brings to the music. ;)

Certainly. My mental state is most often very balanced, maybe even too much so.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Antonio de Cabezón
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2013, 07:21:12 AM »
Yes, I like Cuiller's Byrd. He's giving a concert in Paris soon and I can't make up my mind whether to go. On the positive side, he's playing F Couperin, and I like the music. On the negative side it's acompanied by a magic lantern  show.

What I'm worried about is that these projections will be sentimental.

http://www.citedelamusique.fr/francais/evenement.aspx?id=13264

Re the wonderful MB 46, I find myself liking Berben's performance on an organ more and more, and Belder - Belder's Fitzwilliam Virginal Book CDs are great fun I think.

Re Cabezón, maybe he's a great composer who wrote no great music  :)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 07:30:32 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Keyboard music by Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2015, 11:03:42 AM »
Don's favourite Cabézon CD has become a real favourite of mine too, despite an initial negative reaction, I find that if you turn the volume down the music ceases to be reminiscent of The Spanish Inquisition. On the  contrary - the music is magically transformed into something rapt and tender even. Are these quiet organs that he plays?  I suppose it depends where you sit in the church.

The other Spanish CD I love is Foccroulle's Arauxo. But the place where I continue to draw a blank is with the Spanish Bach - Cabanilles. Maybe he gets his high reputation from his vocal music, which I've not explored. Any suggestions for good keyboard recordings, preferably organ.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 11:19:12 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Keyboard music by Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2015, 12:39:38 PM »
Don's favourite Cabézon CD has become a real favourite of mine too, despite an initial negative reaction, I find that if you turn the volume down the music ceases to be reminiscent of The Spanish Inquisition. On the  contrary - the music is magically transformed into something rapt and tender even. Are these quiet organs that he plays?  I suppose it depends where you sit in the church.

It was the seriousness of Astronio which associated me to the Spanish Inquisition, not the Cabezon/Uriol twofer, which I had not heard at that time. Afterwards I got it and well, warmer and more human than Astronios interpretations.

Quote from: Mandryka
The other Spanish CD I love is Foccroulle's Arauxo. But the place where I continue to draw a blank is with the Spanish Bach - Cabanilles. Maybe he gets his high reputation from his vocal music, which I've not explored. Any suggestions for good keyboard recordings, preferably organ.

I know only a few discs containing exclusively works by Cabanilles.

Monserrat Torrent LP, ca 1965 
may be downloaded: http://www.amazon.fr/Cabanilles-Bataille-autres-Montserrat-Torrent/dp/B003MOQEKG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1420403514&sr=8-2&keywords=cabanilles+torrent
very fine

Sandro Müller:  https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Juan-Bautista-Cabanilles-1644-1712-Orgelwerke-Vol-4/hnum/7986408 
pedestrian, bores me

Jan Willem Jansenhttps://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Juan-Bautista-Cabanilles-1644-1712-Orgelwerke/hnum/1552157
middle of the road, good without being exceptional

Leon Berbenhttps://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Juan-Bautista-Cabanilles-1644-1712-Orgelwerke/hnum/9183958
missed opportunity, fine playing but impossible acoustics

John Butthttp://www.amazon.fr/Cabanilles-Obras-Organo-John-Butt/dp/B00B9HYM8O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420402948&sr=8-1&keywords=john+butt+cabanilles
interpretation somewhat unexciting, not as boring as Müller´s CD though

Christina Garcia Banegas: http://www.amazon.fr/Organo-historico-espa%C3%B1ol-cdaudivis-folletoint/dp/B003Z75596/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420403371&sr=8-1&keywords=cabanilles+banegas
second only to Torrent´s LP


The rest of the organ works of Cabanilles, of which I own  recordings, are scattered in different collections (Chapelet, Gnann e.g.)

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Keyboard music by Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2015, 09:10:28 AM »
Thanks for doing that Premont, of the ones you listed I'd heard Butt, but I wasn't ever grabbed by the music. Montserrat Torrent's CD was easy to find as download (from google play - better quality and cheaper than amazon.) My feeling so far is that she's made a choice of quite bravura music which she plays with great brio.
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Offline HIPster

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Re: Keyboard music by Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2015, 05:48:36 PM »
Just ordered ~


What do you think of it, Petrarch?

Looking into Ensemble Accentus's Naxos recording as well in the future.

Nice looking recommendations in this thread - thanks Mandryka.   ;)

Offline HIPster

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Re: Keyboard music by Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2015, 08:54:57 AM »
Okay, this thread is very inspiring! ;D

Just ordered the Ensemble Accentus, Naxos release:



Offline Mandryka

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Re: Keyboard music by Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2015, 09:02:03 AM »
Okay, this thread is very inspiring! ;D

Just ordered the Ensemble Accentus, Naxos release:



You will find that CD ravishing I expect. Amongst other things, the harpsichord player (unnamed) is just absolutely fabulous.

Does anyone prefer Arauxo to Cabezón? I think I do, but it may be just that I'm particularly open to Foccroulle's style.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 09:38:18 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Keyboard music by Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2015, 12:41:52 PM »
Thanks for doing that Premont, of the ones you listed I'd heard Butt, but I wasn't ever grabbed by the music. Montserrat Torrent's CD was easy to find as download (from google play - better quality and cheaper than amazon.) My feeling so far is that she's made a choice of quite bravura music which she plays with great brio.

My impression from what I have heard of Cabanilles´ organ music (the above mentioned recordings - I have not found him sufficiently interesting to acquire or to find some scores) is, that the bravura quality is the most prominent feature of this music, and taking this into consideration I find Torrent very satisfying.

My priority list of interest in these three Spanish organ composers is 1)Cabezon 2)Correa de Arauxo 3)Cabanilles
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