Author Topic: Schoenberg's Sheen  (Read 54410 times)

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greg

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Re: Let Schoenberg Schine
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2007, 06:09:25 AM »
What do people think of the piano music? Which recording is the best to own? I've heard that Pollini is one of the best.
i like Glenn Gould recording of his complete solo piano music, plus does the piano concerto, Phantasy for Violin and Piano, Ode to Napoleon, and conducts a bit of Pierrot Lunaire

Don Giovanni

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Re: Let Schoenberg Schine
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2007, 07:50:09 AM »
I've heard that Gould doesn't play exactly what Schoenberg wrote. I think it was on one of the reviews for Pollini's version on amazon.com.

Offline Cato

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Re: Let Schoenberg Schine
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2007, 10:10:57 AM »
Anyone have any thoughts on Jacob's Ladder?

I've just been listening to the disc below and am bowled over by the beauty of the music! By turns bold, delicate, and layered with much color.

Nagano conducts with a romantic influence yet by no means downplays the edginess.

I've not seen much in print about this work but under Nagano's direction I detect much to rave about!

And the text...little doubt this would be a hard one in the theater! ;D






This is one of the greatest, little-played works of the last century!  I used to have my students translate and interpret the text, which is admittedly difficult.

But the music is a marvelous hybrid, with distant echoes of Gurrelieder and future echoes of Moses und Aron.

But what is amazing for an unfinished work, is that it does not sound unfinished at all.  The ending with the single note sung by a single voice, is absolutely, ineffably beautiful.
"Now who taught ye t' be playin' patty fingers in the holy water?"

- Barry Fitzgerald to John Wayne in  The Quiet Man.

greg

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Re: Let Schoenberg Schine
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2007, 11:53:48 AM »
I've heard that Gould doesn't play exactly what Schoenberg wrote. I think it was on one of the reviews for Pollini's version on amazon.com.
it's more of an improvised, Romantic-style playing. Like for the Piano Suite, instead of obeying the score note-for-note, he accentuates accelerandos and ritardandos even if they aren't written, and yeah, it does sound real nice.

Offline Dancing Divertimentian

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    probably something somebody somewhere is snickering at...wait, Schoenberg! Definitely Schoenberg! (And, let's see, does he have a disciple or two...)...
Re: Let Schoenberg Schine
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2007, 04:46:59 PM »
This is one of the greatest, little-played works of the last century!  I used to have my students translate and interpret the text, which is admittedly difficult.

But the music is a marvelous hybrid, with distant echoes of Gurrelieder and future echoes of Moses und Aron.

But what is amazing for an unfinished work, is that it does not sound unfinished at all.  The ending with the single note sung by a single voice, is absolutely, ineffably beautiful.

Such a great work done in by the text, would you say? Or are the problems musical, as can happen with Schoenberg?

The text, for me, offers no roadblocks. But I can see where the general concertgoer might be put off (their loss...).

But the music...it can stand with the best of Schoenberg, which is to say, some of the 20th century's finest. This alone should put it in good standing.  

Being new to the work I had wondered about its romantic leanings, wondering if it simply had been nudged that way by Nagano. But your description of it as a hybrid makes sense. Elements of the past finding refuge in the future.

Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Offline val

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Re: Let Schoenberg Schine
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2007, 04:44:36 AM »
I don't like much Schönberg's solo piano music. It seems to me too abstract.

The works of Schönberg that I love more:

The opera "Moses und Aaron" (Gielen)

Pierrot Lunaire (Sziklay, Miàly)

Serenata opus 24 (Atherton)

2nd string Quartet (Prazak Quartet)

Trio opus 45 (members of the Juilliard Quartet)

Friede auf Erden, The two Psalms, A survivor in Varsaw (Boulez)

Piano Concerto (Ushida, Boulez)

Die Jakobsleiter (Boulez)

Pieces opus 16 (Boulez).

The Lieder (Bryn Julson, Oppens)

Offline Cato

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Re: Let Schoenberg Schine
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2007, 12:34:36 PM »
Concerning Jacob's Ladder:

Such a great work done in by the text, would you say? Or are the problems musical, as can happen with Schoenberg?

The text, for me, offers no roadblocks. But I can see where the general concertgoer might be put off (their loss...).

But the music...it can stand with the best of Schoenberg, which is to say, some of the 20th century's finest. This alone should put it in good standing.  

Being new to the work I had wondered about its romantic leanings, wondering if it simply had been nudged that way by Nagano. But your description of it as a hybrid makes sense. Elements of the past finding refuge in the future.


The text is seemingly about as unmusical as you can get!  Yet when you hear it, everything flows, and nothing sounds clumsy.  To be sure, most of Gabriel's part is Sprechgesang, but there are thorny parts elsewhere which sound just fine.

 Schoenberg thought so much of the text that he later had it published separately.  It is available today from his family publishing company Belmont Music  (Belmont = Schoenberg), if you want a copy.

An experiment: play the Gurrelieder section of Klaus-Narr back to back with the Revolutionary (der Aufrührerischer) from Jakobsleiter and you will hear the connection between the tonal and the atonal.
"Now who taught ye t' be playin' patty fingers in the holy water?"

- Barry Fitzgerald to John Wayne in  The Quiet Man.

karlhenning

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Re: Let Schoenberg Schine
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2007, 12:36:27 PM »
. . . his family publishing company Belmont Music  (Belmont = Schoenberg)

Cor!  It's obvious!  How did I miss that before?

Offline Cato

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Re: Let Schoenberg Schine
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2007, 12:45:14 PM »
Cor!  It's obvious!  How did I miss that before?

You have too many other more important things to ponder!   :D

I forgot to mention earlier that in the middle 90's  a German company from the Ruhr Valley presented Jakobsleiter as a ballet!  My brother saw it in LaLaLand.  Rumor had it that the Schoenberg family was not really happy with the idea, but I thought it could only help to explicate the text.
"Now who taught ye t' be playin' patty fingers in the holy water?"

- Barry Fitzgerald to John Wayne in  The Quiet Man.

greg

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Re: Let Schoenberg Schine
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2007, 06:10:15 AM »
recently listened to Schoenberg:

op.28 Three Satires for Mixed Chorus
op.34 Accompaniment to a Film Scene
op.43a Theme and Variations for Full Band
op.44 Prelude for Mixed Chorus and Orchestra

the first few minutes of Moses und Aron (wow!!!!  :o )

now:
op.32 From Today Till Tomorrow

Offline Cato

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Re: Let Schoenberg Schine
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2007, 06:22:40 AM »
recently listened to Schoenberg:

op.28 Three Satires for Mixed Chorus
op.34 Accompaniment to a Film Scene
op.43a Theme and Variations for Full Band
op.44 Prelude for Mixed Chorus and Orchestra

the first few minutes of Moses und Aron (wow!!!!  :o )

now:
op.32 From Today Till Tomorrow

Which recording of Moses und Aron ?  The Solti recording had Barbara Bonney - before she was very famous - in one of the minor roles.

But I think the new DGG Boulez recording has better sound and delineation.
"Now who taught ye t' be playin' patty fingers in the holy water?"

- Barry Fitzgerald to John Wayne in  The Quiet Man.

greg

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Re: Let Schoenberg Schine
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2007, 06:28:49 AM »
Which recording of Moses und Aron ?  The Solti recording had Barbara Bonney - before she was very famous - in one of the minor roles.

But I think the new DGG Boulez recording has better sound and delineation.
I don't know which recording it is, actually. It's the one on the Schoenberg site  8)
(do you know which one that is?)

Don Giovanni

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Re: Let Schoenberg Schine
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2007, 07:20:17 AM »
I've been listening to Pierrot Lunaire recently. I have to say, it's one of the craziest, most wonderful works I've ever heard. How important is it among Schoenberg's oeuvre?

karlhenning

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Re: Let Schoenberg Schine
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2007, 07:21:48 AM »
Stravinsky called it "the solar plexus of twentieth-century music."

Offline Cato

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Re: Let Schoenberg Schine
« Reply #34 on: April 26, 2007, 09:55:06 AM »
I don't know which recording it is, actually. It's the one on the Schoenberg site  8)
(do you know which one that is?)

Sorry, no!  You would think they ought to credit the recording somewhere.

Pierrot Lunaire shows exactly what free atonality is capable of: I sometimes muse quite seriously as to whether Schoenberg should have stayed with that style, rather than formulating "composition with 12 notes," although to be sure you can find a willingness to break his own rules in the later works.
"Now who taught ye t' be playin' patty fingers in the holy water?"

- Barry Fitzgerald to John Wayne in  The Quiet Man.

Offline Brewski

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Re: Let Schoenberg Schine
« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2007, 09:59:01 AM »
Stravinsky called it "the solar plexus of twentieth-century music."

Thanks for posting that quote, Karl.  A perfectly fine description of a totally amazing piece.

--Bruce
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Haffner

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Re: Let Schoenberg Schine
« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2007, 10:40:28 AM »
I like Pierrot Lunaire. Trippy stuff ...



I am looking for a good recording of that piece.

I discovered verklarte nacht recently and was really devastated...I could hear the late romanticism in it, but Schoenberg asserts his own compositional personality throughout as well. A fascinating piece, I'm playing it for the 6th time in two days.

karlhenning

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Re: Let Schoenberg Schine
« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2007, 10:51:00 AM »
I am looking for a good recording of that piece.

This is your day, Andy! :-)

Naxos reissued the Craft/Anja Silja recording last month.


Haffner

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Re: Let Schoenberg Schine
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2007, 03:03:47 PM »
This is your day, Andy! :-)

Naxos reissued the Craft/Anja Silja recording last month.






On my Amazon wish list (lust!) as we speak, thanks Karl!

Offline Cato

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Re: Let Schoenberg Schine
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2007, 03:10:48 PM »
This is your day, Andy! :-)

Naxos reissued the Craft/Anja Silja recording last month.



Agreed!  That one is a classic!  And the other works on the CD are must-haves as well, especially the Four Orchestral Songs.
"Now who taught ye t' be playin' patty fingers in the holy water?"

- Barry Fitzgerald to John Wayne in  The Quiet Man.

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