Author Topic: Schoenberg's Sheen  (Read 78735 times)

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Online k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Schoenberg's Sheen
« Reply #640 on: January 16, 2019, 02:17:13 PM »
Wonderful
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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Offline Cato

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Re: Schoenberg's Sheen
« Reply #641 on: January 16, 2019, 02:19:51 PM »
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

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Re: Schoenberg's Sheen
« Reply #642 on: January 16, 2019, 06:12:05 PM »
Thanks to composer/pianist Lera Auerbach on FaceBook: published last June!





https://www.amazon.com/Doctor-Faustus-Dossier-Contemporaries-20th-Century-ebook/dp/B07D1LDNRP/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1547667850&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=Schoenberg%2C%20Adorno%2C%20Mann&fbclid=IwAR2gUA9aqacCRTImqVU6paJBCjndmF9sCLrbrTBN8xqL2HrDEI0bTypGdHE

Looks mighty interesting. Thanks for the info!

Footnote: E. Randol Schoenberg is Arnold’s grandson and Luigi Nono’s nephew. A lawyer specialized in looted art recovery, he helped Maria Altmann regain possession of 5 paintings by Gustav Klimt stolen by the nazis. She later sold them for 327 million $. Randol’s fee for his work is reputed to have been 40% of the paintings’ value, enabling him to devote himself to the kind of work he found most rewarding.

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Re: Schoenberg's Sheen
« Reply #643 on: January 17, 2019, 06:19:20 AM »
"Randol Schoenberg," I love it,!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
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Online André

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Re: Schoenberg's Sheen
« Reply #644 on: January 17, 2019, 06:31:21 AM »
"Randol Schoenberg," I love it,!

Arnold’s son (Randol’s dad) was named Ronald. You get the drift... ;D

Offline North Star

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Re: Schoenberg's Sheen
« Reply #645 on: January 17, 2019, 06:42:59 AM »
I hope there are also Orland and Roland Schoenberg...
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Online André

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Re: Schoenberg's Sheen
« Reply #646 on: January 17, 2019, 07:09:54 AM »
I hope there are also Orland and Roland Schoenberg...

No, the series ends there  :D. His children were Nuria (married to Luigi Nono), Lawrence, Ronald, Georg and Gertrud.

Offline Cato

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Re: Schoenberg's Sheen
« Reply #647 on: March 17, 2019, 06:47:07 AM »
On a FaceBook site there was a mention of Georg Solti never having conducted Gurrelieder.

An article from the Chicago Tribune 30 years ago said that in his "retirement" he planned to conduct this work, along with others he had never conducted by Prokofiev and Nielsen.

I can find not mention of a performance, recorded or not.  Does anyone have information on this?
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Schoenberg's Sheen
« Reply #648 on: April 12, 2019, 10:29:51 PM »



Just discovered by me, very nice, including the sound.

Recommendations for other recordings of the op 24 serenade appreciated.
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Re: Schoenberg's Sheen
« Reply #649 on: June 04, 2019, 03:40:25 PM »
Just came across the Hollywood SQ playing Transfigured Night:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqODySSxYpc&t=154s

Is there a more awesome version ?

Online André

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Re: Schoenberg's Sheen
« Reply #650 on: June 20, 2019, 08:31:44 AM »
5 Pieces op 16. A very interesting 53 minute documentary cum performance with Michael Gielen. Fascinating insights from the conductor and from pianist Charles Rosen.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tQf2iZgzMXU

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Re: Schoenberg's Sheen
« Reply #651 on: June 20, 2019, 09:31:47 AM »
5 Pieces op 16. A very interesting 53 minute documentary cum performance with Michael Gielen. Fascinating insights from the conductor and from pianist Charles Rosen.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tQf2iZgzMXU


Nice!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Schoenberg's Sheen
« Reply #652 on: September 23, 2019, 03:15:25 PM »
Arnold Schoenberg is the kind of composer about whom I wonder if his music will ever cease to be challenging. His music is so dense, dark, and imposing, but by that same token, it is expressive, monumental, and, most importantly of all, ceaselessly rewarding. I think he shares some of these traits with his one-time idol, Johannes Brahms, another composer I found impenetrable for the longest time, and sometimes still do.

A fascinating thing about Schoenberg is that his career includes multiple distinct periods of full maturity. Despite having changed his artistic values and methods several times over the course of his life, Schoenberg matured early. As early as Verklärte Nacht, he was producing brilliant, multifaceted works of art, to say nothing of such towering masterpieces as the first string quartet or Gurre-Lieder. Of course, following his early dark-romantic period, he would go on to reinvent the whole melodic and harmonic language of music, not once, but twice. The only composer who could say the same thing, in my opinion, is Ludwig van Beethoven. In fact, now that I think about it, these composers share many similarities, incomprehensibility in their own times not least among them.

When I first decided to give Schoenberg's music a fair shot, I didn't get it. I've since came around on many other "difficult" composers, including some that I now really enjoy and admire: Anton Webern (whose music I particularly love), Pierre Boulez, Witold Lutoslawski, Elliott Carter, Luciano Berio, György Kurtág. To this day I consider Schoenberg a tougher nut to crack than any of these, save possibly Carter. I can't put my finger on what it is, but his music is and maybe forever will be challenging to me. There are major works of his which are still incomprehensible to me. Pierrot Lunaire, Erwartung, even Pelleas und Melisande... when I listen to these works, the foremost thought in my mind is still "WTF". That's not to say that I can't enjoy them, but I still sometimes feel like, for all my appreciation and admiration of his music, there is still something I'm not quite "getting".

Does anyone else feel this way? In any case, he is one of few composers about whom I'm compelled to proclaim thus: like him or not, he is one of the greatest of all time.  8)

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Re: Schoenberg's Sheen
« Reply #653 on: September 23, 2019, 05:43:01 PM »
Arnold Schoenberg is the kind of composer about whom I wonder if his music will ever cease to be challenging. His music is so dense, dark, and imposing, but by that same token, it is expressive, monumental, and, most importantly of all, ceaselessly rewarding. I think he shares some of these traits with his one-time idol, Johannes Brahms, another composer I found impenetrable for the longest time, and sometimes still do.

A fascinating thing about Schoenberg is that his career includes multiple distinct periods of full maturity. Despite having changed his artistic values and methods several times over the course of his life, Schoenberg matured early. As early as Verklärte Nacht, he was producing brilliant, multifaceted works of art, to say nothing of such towering masterpieces as the first string quartet or Gurre-Lieder. Of course, following his early dark-romantic period, he would go on to reinvent the whole melodic and harmonic language of music, not once, but twice. The only composer who could say the same thing, in my opinion, is Ludwig van Beethoven. In fact, now that I think about it, these composers share many similarities, incomprehensibility in their own times not least among them.

When I first decided to give Schoenberg's music a fair shot, I didn't get it. I've since came around on many other "difficult" composers, including some that I now really enjoy and admire: Anton Webern (whose music I particularly love), Pierre Boulez, Witold Lutoslawski, Elliott Carter, Luciano Berio, György Kurtág. To this day I consider Schoenberg a tougher nut to crack than any of these, save possibly Carter. I can't put my finger on what it is, but his music is and maybe forever will be challenging to me. There are major works of his which are still incomprehensible to me. Pierrot Lunaire, Erwartung, even Pelleas und Melisande... when I listen to these works, the foremost thought in my mind is still "WTF". That's not to say that I can't enjoy them, but I still sometimes feel like, for all my appreciation and admiration of his music, there is still something I'm not quite "getting".

Does anyone else feel this way? In any case, he is one of few composers about whom I'm compelled to proclaim thus: like him or not, he is one of the greatest of all time.  8)

Very interesting. I think you're right: the music is always challenging. I do love the music, and its challenging nature is one of the things I enjoy.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Online Daverz

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Re: Schoenberg's Sheen
« Reply #654 on: September 23, 2019, 06:12:14 PM »
Very interesting. I think you're right: the music is always challenging. I do love the music, and its challenging nature is one of the things I enjoy.

My "problem" with Schoenberg's music can be summarized visually:



The dude was intense.  He music rarely relaxes and does not coddle the listener.  Better be rested and have a good breakfast before listening to it.

Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Schoenberg's Sheen
« Reply #655 on: September 24, 2019, 01:39:41 AM »
My "problem" with Schoenberg's music can be summarized visually:



The dude was intense.  He music rarely relaxes and does not coddle the listener.  Better be rested and have a good breakfast before listening to it.

Very true  ;D I love him for his unbridled intensity, though. No other composer comes close, except for perhaps Mahler, whose music is not quite so unrelenting (save the 6th symphony, the Kindertotenlieder etc).

One thing I think is hilarious about Schoenberg (and perhaps this sheds some light on my somewhat twisted sense of humor) is that he, who loved the number 12 so much that he dedicated his life to changing the harmonic language of his music to treat each of the 12 tones equally, was so terrified of the number 13 that it literally killed him. He died at 76 (a dangerous year, according to one of his trusted numerologists, 7+6=13....) on Friday the 13th, minutes before midnight, according to his wife, after having spent the whole day sick in bed, anxious. Tragic, obviously, but with a certain poetic justice to it.

Anyway, I'm now realizing that I missed his birthday earlier in the month, so I'm going to spend the rest of September listening to as much Schoenberg as I can. Has anyone listening to any great CDs of Schoenberg that they would like to recommend?

I just ordered the Sinopoli box:



I'm not crazy about Sinopoli's Pierrot Lunaire, so I'm wondering what some of the other good recordings of that work are... Boulez/Schäfer seems popular.

A final thought: Schoenberg, in addition to being the great, revolutionary composer and the great pedagogue that he was, was also a hell of a painter.


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Re: Schoenberg's Sheen
« Reply #656 on: September 24, 2019, 06:33:26 AM »
Very interesting. I think you're right: the music is always challenging. I do love the music, and its challenging nature is one of the things I enjoy.

Yes, very much so!

————————————————-


Re: Pierrot lunaire. I haven’t heard that many versions, but the first I ever had is still the one I connect to, though in fairness I should add I haven’t heard it in decades. It was issued on a Nonesuch lp, with Jan DeGaetani, Gilbert Kalish and friends. It's been reissued on cd but is quite hard to find. Whenever I hear another version I miss that one.


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Re: Schoenberg's Sheen
« Reply #657 on: September 24, 2019, 07:04:18 AM »
I do love Anja Silja in both Pierrot lunaire and Erwartung.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline Cato

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Re: Schoenberg's Sheen
« Reply #658 on: September 24, 2019, 07:36:01 AM »


The dude was intense.  He music rarely relaxes and does not coddle the listener.  Better be rested and have a good breakfast before listening to it.



Very true  ;D I love him for his unbridled intensity, though. No other composer comes close, except for perhaps Mahler, whose music is not quite so unrelenting (save the 6th symphony, the Kindertotenlieder etc).


Your comments remind me of a student many years ago.

When I was teaching German in an all-boy Catholic high school, I used some of Schoenberg's vocal/orchestral works in my course.  PBS had broadcast Jessye Norman in a Metropolitan Opera performance of Erwartung (and Bartok's Bluebeard's Castle: a double bill).  Listening to the foreign language being sung would sharpen my students' comprehension of the spoken language.

My school had a large projection television set with stereo sound (courtesy of the Sports Program: the football coaches used it to review their "game tapes.")  I was able to use it for showing my tape of Erwartung.

The performance was about 35-40 minutes, and afterward one of my students sat back in the chair and heaved a huge sigh.  When I asked what might be the problem, he said:

"That music!  It's so intense!"   8)
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Schoenberg's Sheen
« Reply #659 on: September 24, 2019, 07:36:26 AM »
The last two quartets were the last thing I listened to, on this recording by The Asasello Quartet. Fresh sounding, satisfying performances, in the booklet they say they the old Kolisch quartet are "ideal interpreters", I keep meaning to listen to them, memories are of painful sound.



Re Sinopoli's Pierrot, I love it!  But maybe I feel a bit ill at ease with more demonstrative, less lyrical, ways of singing it.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 07:40:43 AM by Mandryka »
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