Author Topic: Ukraine in turmoil  (Read 14008 times)

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Offline Rinaldo

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Ukraine in turmoil
« on: February 20, 2014, 03:07:41 PM »
Anyone following the events in Ukraine? The tension that was building up seems to have snapped. Hopefully this won't turn into a full-blooded (pun not intended, enough blood has been shed already) civil war.. word is, some of the corrupt politicians are already fleeing the country.

There was a support rally here in Prague today:


Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

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Re: Ukraine in turmoil
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2014, 05:25:45 PM »

There was a support rally here in Prague today:

When I was in Prague (2001-02), lots of Ukrainians were living there. In fact the term "Ukrainian" was becoming a shorthand for Gastarbeiter ("I hired a Ukrainian to fix my roof").

Lots of these Ukrainians were highly educated and skilled, which didn't say much in favor of Ukraine's economy.
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Offline snyprrr

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Re: Ukraine in turmoil
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2014, 06:40:32 PM »
Oh look, there's a mo$$ad ageant and a see-aye-yay! ageant acting like Yook-Rain-Ians,... whoops didn't mean to spoil the party! :-[ Gotta get those pipelines.

This is starting to get old. >:D
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Offline Jeffrey Smith

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Re: Ukraine in turmoil
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2014, 07:14:07 PM »
From what I've read there are serious geographic and ethnic complications to the Ukraine situation--the western portion dominated by ethnic Ukrainians who want greater ties to the EU contrasted with the eastern portion in which are found a large number of ethnic Russians who prefer greater ties to Russia.

Although I don't see why the Ukraine can't have both.  But then I don't live in that part of the world.


And there's another country that's not exactly calm, cool and collected right now:  Venezuela.

Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

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Re: Ukraine in turmoil
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2014, 08:43:41 PM »
From what I've read there are serious geographic and ethnic complications to the Ukraine situation--the western portion dominated by ethnic Ukrainians who want greater ties to the EU contrasted with the eastern portion in which are found a large number of ethnic Russians who prefer greater ties to Russia.

That's basically true, although within that overall situation, there are various gradations. For example, a lot of the people in the east are not ethnic Russians but Russian-speaking Ukrainians, who would like a closer association with Russia but would not want to give up Ukrainian independence.
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Offline Jeffrey Smith

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Re: Ukraine in turmoil
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2014, 10:48:54 AM »
That's basically true, although within that overall situation, there are various gradations. For example, a lot of the people in the east are not ethnic Russians but Russian-speaking Ukrainians, who would like a closer association with Russia but would not want to give up Ukrainian independence.

And of course there's the historical complication that at one point, before the rise of Moscow,  the great city of Russia was Kiev and the core of the Russian state was really the Ukraine.  Of course, that was a thousand years or so ago,  but still it does point to a situation wherein the Ukraine is far more central to Russia than, say,  Scotland and Wales are to England.

Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

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Re: Ukraine in turmoil
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2014, 11:05:24 AM »
And of course there's the historical complication that at one point, before the rise of Moscow,  the great city of Russia was Kiev and the core of the Russian state was really the Ukraine.  Of course, that was a thousand years or so ago,  but still it does point to a situation wherein the Ukraine is far more central to Russia than, say,  Scotland and Wales are to England.

The original state of Rus', which formed around the 9th century or so, had its de facto capital in Kiev. Its territory comprised parts of what is now Ukraine, Russia and Belarus. So all 3 of these countries originate from that medieval state.
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Offline Jeffrey Smith

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Re: Ukraine in turmoil
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2014, 11:24:10 AM »
The original state of Rus', which formed around the 9th century or so, had its de facto capital in Kiev. Its territory comprised parts of what is now Ukraine, Russia and Belarus. So all 3 of these countries originate from that medieval state.

And let's not get into the complications of what used to be Poland and Lithuania, and what was not.....My mother's parents were from various nooks and crannies of that area, although more to the Belarus portion, I believe.  Exact location is hard to pinpoint, since all I know is the name of the village my grandmother was from, and not even that much for my grandfather (they met and married in Boston back in 1911).

Meanwhile,  please don't forget the violence in Venezuela....

Offline Rinaldo

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Re: Ukraine in turmoil
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2014, 12:45:27 PM »
When I was in Prague (2001-02), lots of Ukrainians were living there. In fact the term "Ukrainian" was becoming a shorthand for Gastarbeiter ("I hired a Ukrainian to fix my roof").

Lots of these Ukrainians were highly educated and skilled, which didn't say much in favor of Ukraine's economy.

Yeah, that stills stands. Lots of Ukrainians at the rally, as well as Czechs - myself, I view the current situation as quite simple: back in December, Janukovyc tried to scatter peaceful protesters with force but they didn't back down and it escalated from that point. The blame is on him and his corrupt government (and Putin, who's pulling the strings, obviously).

As for Venezuela, I'm seeing the news and I have zero clue about what's going on.. need to educate myself on that region.

Offline Jeffrey Smith

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Re: Ukraine in turmoil
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2014, 04:37:59 PM »

As for Venezuela, I'm seeing the news and I have zero clue about what's going on.. need to educate myself on that region.

This may be of help.   The blogger is, obviously,  anti-chavismo. 
http://daniel-venezuela.blogspot.com/

For me,  Venezuela bulks larger than the Ukraine,  because I'm in South Florida.  In fact, a few members of my synagogue are from there, so I may hear more tomorrow after services.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 04:39:54 PM by Jeffrey Smith »

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Offline snyprrr

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Re: Ukraine in turmoil
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2014, 07:20:51 AM »
There's an article today where they arrestred a c i a agaent in the U working with protestors. But no one here cares about that? Yissyrel and US black ops out of the You-crane. Is this a conversation problem here? They're being caught all over the place... can anyone here say agaent provocatooooor? And yes, with the way things are going these days, why SHOULDN'T  I cover my writing?

So maybe at least next time- the next country that erupts- maybe you'll remember this point when they start finding agaents there too. Wake up people, there's sayyaneem everywhere working in darknesse- apparently it's just a fact. gaaaaaaaaaah ::)

Then they came for the Americans...

Coming soon to a strip mall near you? Wait till the 47% realize they've been looted- can't get their free food and (most importantly) their psychotropic drugs. Craaaa-zeeee!!!
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Offline Rinaldo

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Re: Ukraine in turmoil
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2014, 03:46:54 PM »
Well, talk about a quick and surprisingly "calm" resolution.. at least for now. Fingers crossed for Ukraine using the revolutionary momentum for righting itself - even if it means the country splitting, just like Czechoslovakia did few years after the Velvet Revolution.

Online North Star

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Re: Ukraine in turmoil
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2014, 03:50:48 PM »
Well, talk about a quick and surprisingly "calm" resolution.. at least for now. Fingers crossed for Ukraine using the revolutionary momentum for righting itself - even if it means the country splitting, just like Czechoslovakia did few years after the Velvet Revolution.
Except it could be more like Korea or Germany after WWII.
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Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

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Re: Ukraine in turmoil
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2014, 04:07:46 PM »
the country splitting, just like Czechoslovakia did few years after the Velvet Revolution.

The Velvet Divorce went smoothly because:

1. There was already an established border between the Czech and Slovak parts
2. No territory or assets to be fought over
3. Czechs and Slovaks don't hate each other

Unfortunately these conditions don't apply in Ukraine.
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Offline Szykneij

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Re: Ukraine in turmoil
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2014, 08:31:16 PM »
And let's not get into the complications of what used to be Poland and Lithuania, and what was not.....My mother's parents were from various nooks and crannies of that area, although more to the Belarus portion, I believe.  Exact location is hard to pinpoint, since all I know is the name of the village my grandmother was from, and not even that much for my grandfather (they met and married in Boston back in 1911).


This is incredibly similar to the story of my own grandparents.
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Re: Ukraine in turmoil
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2014, 08:40:21 PM »
WOO HOO

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DLZ7pWtyLCY&feature=youtu.be

Toppling statues of Lenin. This just never gets old.

Offline knight66

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Re: Ukraine in turmoil
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2014, 12:35:47 AM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26302572#TWEET1051753

Here is a marvellous timeline/blog on yesterday's events. I guess it is now over to Russia to see what action they will take.

Mike
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Offline AnthonyAthletic

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Re: Ukraine in turmoil
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2014, 01:15:31 AM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26302572#TWEET1051753

Here is a marvellous timeline/blog on yesterday's events. I guess it is now over to Russia to see what action they will take.

Mike

Good read there Mike,

Maybe Putin will step in and add some pressure, but not before the final of the Bobsleigh.

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Offline knight66

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Re: Ukraine in turmoil
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2014, 02:35:58 AM »
Good point Tony, though the pressure may be the supply of insurgents into the Russian sector to stir up trouble.

Mike
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