Author Topic: Chant  (Read 19098 times)

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Chant
« Reply #260 on: December 12, 2019, 12:23:01 PM »
I just want to put here some preliminary reactions to interpretations 9th century music which I've started to explore a bit more, manuscripts in Switzerland, St Gallen, some of which is attributable to a named poet, Notker (the stammerer -- Balbulus.) I can find three recordings with substantial amounts of the music viz: Joppich, Morent and Vellard

        

The thing I want to point out is that prima facie both Morent and Vellard are fast and inexpressive, while Joppich takes his time to let the musical gestures be felt. It sometimes feels to me as though Morent's and Vellard's singers are going on about a shopping list while Joppich’s are declaiming poetry.

I'm a bit cautious here, I don't think I am but I could be doing Morent and Vellard an injustice. And maybe, just maybe, Joppich is gilding an already beautiful lily and hence spoiling it. I'd be surprised to find either of these things were true, but I'm certainly open to the possibility.

So this makes me wonder how their tempos were determined. And how the details of their expression, of note formation etc -- the vocality and sonority of their singing--  were determined. The booklets to Morent and Vellard are full of paleographic stuff, but they are disappointingly silent about their performance decisions, I don't have the booklet to Joppich (can someone upload it for me?)

This post was totally unfair to Vellard!  Shame on me.

You have to have soft ears, to paraphrase an idea from The Wire.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/tmZUI1LTYZQ" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/tmZUI1LTYZQ</a>
« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 04:34:17 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Chant
« Reply #261 on: December 27, 2019, 09:23:53 AM »
Quote
Enfin une réponse fondée sur des preuves scientifiques selon la sémiologie de Dom
Cardine à des courants de pensée qui font étalage de théories sans jamais parvenir
à des conclusions prouvées et irréfutables.
Un nouveau livre de chant grégorien était-il vraiment nécessaire ? Était-il opportun d’intervenir pour
modifier des mélodies millénaires, présentes depuis des siècles dans la tradition chantée vivante ? En
des temps où l’Occident a abandonné progressivement la langue latine, une proposition de
restauration ne semble-t-elle pas anachronique ?
Face à ces interrogations, et à d’autres, l’auteur explore l’histoire de la genèse du travail
monumental qui, en trente ans de recherche et d’étude approfondies au nom de la sémiologie
grégorienne, a conduit à la publication des deux volumes du Graduale Novum et, sur des bases
scientifiques, il offre les réponses aux maintes questions qui se sont soulevées, parmi les chercheurs
et en dehors de la communauté scientifique, à l’apparition de cet ouvrage, destiné à changer le cours
de l’histoire du chant grégorien.
Johannes Berchmans Göschl décrit chaque pas de ce travail, avec sérénité et précision,
documentant et justifiant chacun des choix effectués selon les manuscrits les plus anciens, à partir de
l’impulsion initiale donnée par le Concile Vatican II qui, dans la Constitution « Sacrosanctum
Concilium », percevait la nécessité impérieuse d’une nouvelle approche vis-à-vis du patrimoine de
chant inestimable de l’Église de Rome, et décrétait l’achèvement des éditions de référence et la
réalisation d’une édition plus critique des livres en usage alors.
Rien d’envergure n’avait encore été entrepris, sinon de faibles et timides tentatives qui n’ont
rencontré ni le succès ni l’intérêt escomptés. Les compétences et la constance remarquables d’un
groupe de spécialistes au sein de l’AISCGre (Associazione internazionale Studi di canto gregoriano)
ont permis au contraire de concrétiser avec le Graduale Novum ce qui n’était resté jusque là qu’un
augure. Désormais, le chant de la liturgie romaine est plus proche que jamais de ses origines.
Johannes Berchmans Göschl, Graduale Novum. Commentaire, Isotta Conti, 2019.
15 x 21 cm
160 p
50 exemples musicaux
Reliure brochée avec dos carré, cousu, collé
Couverture cartonnée de 280 g avec rabats de 10 cm
ISBN 978-2-902305-00-1
PVP : 25 € TTC + frais d’expédition
Souscription jusqu’au 31 janvier 2020 au prix de 20 € + frais d’expédition
Paiement anticipé par chèque pour la France ou par virement bancaire aux coordonnées suivantes respectivement :
• Isotta Conti Éditions
16, boulevard Saint-Germain
75005 Paris
• Isotta Conti Éditions
Société Générale
IBAN FR76 3000 3030 1000 0202 0051 967
BIC SOGEFRPP
Motif: Souscription Graduale Novum Commentaire
Le livre sera envoyé à l’adresse postale indiquée par chacun à partir du 1er février 2020.


I just can't be bothered translate, basically it's a new book, scientific, gregorian. If you're interested and google translate isn't good enough, let me know.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Chant
« Reply #262 on: January 06, 2020, 09:03:06 PM »


The concept here is an informed presentation of a wide range of ancient European religious music styles, mostly for use in church rituals  - from, for example, Rome, Milan, St Gall. You’d expect the result to be diverse, but in fact I’m impressed by the coherence of all the music. Yes, there are different styles of singing here, but the way they’re juxtaposed just works as a CD. As such, I think the recording is a valuable glimpse into c9 European religious music making, and it reveals how vibrant the scene was. More that that, it’s a great thing to hear, not least because of Sequentia’s experience of making sense of sequences and through composed material, these guys have been doing it for years and they’ve learned how to use voice colour and how to attack the words and how to overlay the voices to make the music expressive, sometimes dramatic sometimes prayerful.


At the end of the CD there are some amazing things. For example lament based on A solis ortus cardine presented with male voices and harp, textures and colours constantly changing, fluid articulation,  it’s a very Sequentia sound. Do they sentimentalise, romanticise? They claim to be informed by what little evidence there is about how this stuff was sung back in the day, without “ neglecting [t]heir own intuition”
« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 09:26:44 PM by Mandryka »
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Offline deprofundis

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Re: Chant
« Reply #263 on: January 19, 2020, 08:59:42 PM »
Merci monsieur Mandryka sa ma l'aiir bien , j'y jetterais un coup d'oeil.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Chant
« Reply #264 on: February 25, 2020, 11:57:20 AM »


I didn't know about this until today . . .really impressive, impeccable, fluid, beautiful singing as far as I can hear, atmospherically recorded, well worh a listen. Performance inspired by C16 manuscripts of a Christmas mass.
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Offline deprofundis

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Re: Chant
« Reply #265 on: February 25, 2020, 04:08:13 PM »


I didn't know about this until today . . .really impressive, impeccable, fluid, beautiful singing as far as I can hear, atmospherically recorded, well worh a listen. Performance inspired by C16 manuscripts of a Christmas mass.
.Dear Mandryka, I this wonderful album , Tallis Scholars outdone themselves here, Love Sarum Chant, About Chant music from Europe, have you heard of Croatian-Dalmatian Chants album called Dalmatica Chant of Adriatic
Dialogos Katarina Livjanic, Kanduri -Josko Calleta on (outhere  division arcana, you might like it, I find a strange similitude on Corsican Chants, but perhaps it's me.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Chant
« Reply #266 on: February 25, 2020, 10:30:57 PM »
.Dear Mandryka, I this wonderful album , Tallis Scholars outdone themselves here, Love Sarum Chant, About Chant music from Europe, have you heard of Croatian-Dalmatian Chants album called Dalmatica Chant of Adriatic
Dialogos Katarina Livjanic, Kanduri -Josko Calleta on (outhere  division arcana, you might like it, I find a strange similitude on Corsican Chants, but perhaps it's me.

These recordings by Dialogos are very nice to hear. My problem is that there’s so much chant, so many different flavours,  different times and different regions, it’s hard for me to get my head round it all. I listen to something by Livjanic for example, register that it sounds good, and then forget - I don’t have the conceptual apparatus to subsume it.
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Offline aligreto

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Re: Chant
« Reply #267 on: February 27, 2020, 08:51:04 AM »


I didn't know about this until today . . .really impressive, impeccable, fluid, beautiful singing as far as I can hear, atmospherically recorded, well worh a listen. Performance inspired by C16 manuscripts of a Christmas mass.

I used to play that CD every Christmas Day for a number of years but I have not listened to it in some time. A really good one for those who have not yet heard it.
The ability to talk comes with knowledge. The ability to listen comes with wisdom.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Chant
« Reply #268 on: February 27, 2020, 09:16:11 AM »


https://sklep.dalmafon.pl/Jerycho-Marcel-Peres-966

It’s fabulous. The music evokes oxymorons - strength and sweetness; energy and intimacy. The sound quality is state of the art.
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