Author Topic: Beethoven's Piano Sonatas  (Read 433417 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jo498

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3537
  • Location: Germany
Re: Beethoven's Piano Sonatas
« Reply #3640 on: June 20, 2017, 11:59:39 PM »
op.106: Gulda, Gilels (DG or Brilliant/live)
op.109: Gilels, Edwin Fischer, Richter
op.110: Gilels, Edwin Fischer
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline mc ukrneal

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8195
Re: Beethoven's Piano Sonatas
« Reply #3641 on: June 21, 2017, 12:47:19 AM »
Personally, I found Gilels a disappointment in the sonatas. I'd recommend Firkusny instead. This is a great disc (and sound not as bad as I had feared):
Offenbach gets a raw deal in recordings considering his talent! For a discussion of this outstanding composer too little recorded: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,5572.

Offline Jo498

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3537
  • Location: Germany
Re: Beethoven's Piano Sonatas
« Reply #3642 on: June 21, 2017, 01:08:11 AM »
I also like the Firkusny disc but I had not mentioned it because it seemed difficult to find.

Gilels is in some respects similar to Arrau that he tends to the slow (often considerably slower than Arrau) and "massive" side and overall appears very "controlled", not really "letting it rip" in fast music (even when his tempi are normal/fastish in such movements). I think his almost complete cycle is a mixed bag for such reasons, e.g. I am not too fond of Gilels' DG Waldstein and Appassionata both of which have often been praised (I still prefer the Waldstein to Arrau on Philips, though). But he can also be very powerful with huge contrasts in dynamics and sounds and effective in attention to details, voicing etc.

In some cases the older (often live) recordings on Melodiya or Brilliant are considerably more spontaneous sounding although the overall conception is similar.

Overall, there is an extremely wide spectrum of interpretations for these works (far more than e.g. for the string quartets or trios in my experience) and Gilels is for me certainly interesting enough to make the DG box worth one's while. But of course there are many other options.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 01:17:09 AM by Jo498 »
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Turner

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1214
  • Location: Europe
Re: Beethoven's Piano Sonatas
« Reply #3643 on: June 21, 2017, 09:47:12 AM »
Personally, I found Gilels a disappointment in the sonatas.

Gilels is very varying, depending on the exact recordings/labels, live versus studio etc.

Offline Florestan

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 13695
  • Location: Bucharest, Romania
Re: Beethoven's Piano Sonatas
« Reply #3644 on: June 21, 2017, 01:29:15 PM »


This box is magical. Live performances.
Les sanglots longs
Des violons
De l'automne
Blessent mon coeur
D'une langueur
Monotone.

Offline Holden

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1716
Re: Beethoven's Piano Sonatas
« Reply #3645 on: June 21, 2017, 03:26:37 PM »
Piano sonata performances I return to.

Op 10/1 Hungerford
Op 13 Moravec, Richter (Moscow 1960)
Op 14 ins 1/2 Richter - Paris
Op 27/1 Gilels
Op 27/2 Solomon one of the few performers to sequence the timing between all three movements and for his dark approach to the first movement
Op 28 Sokolov in Paris DVD
Op 31/2 Richter, Rubinstein
Op 53 Rudolf Serkin (on M&A), Tomsic
Op 57 Gilels (Moscow live 1960) the best ever Appassionata IMO.
Opp 109-111 Pollini
Op 110 Richter in Leipzig
Op 111 Arrau - Classical Archives DVD circa early '60s
Cheers

Holden

Offline Todd

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14295
Re: Beethoven's Piano Sonatas
« Reply #3646 on: June 21, 2017, 07:03:51 PM »



I received my copy of Saleem Ashkar's Beethoven sonata twofer today.  It was recorded using a Bechstein in January of this year.  Per Mr Ashkar's website, this is the first of four releases scheduled for this year and next that will cover the entire cycle.  Bring on (physical) cycle 96!
The universe is change; life is opinion.   Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8423
Re: Beethoven's Piano Sonatas
« Reply #3647 on: June 22, 2017, 01:49:15 AM »
Op 111 Arrau - Classical Archives DVD circa early '60s

This is a really special thing. Extraordinary voicing, each variation has its own character. The sound is fabulous too, and that matters.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline George

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4949
  • Our DJ's Better Than All These Bands
Re: Beethoven's Piano Sonatas
« Reply #3648 on: June 22, 2017, 03:52:26 AM »

Op 111 Arrau - Classical Archives DVD circa early '60s
This is a really special thing. Extraordinary voicing, each variation has its own character. The sound is fabulous too, and that matters.

Is this the one you guys mean: https://www.amazon.com/Claudio-Arrau-Beethoven-Piano-Sonatas/dp/B004TWOXI0/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1498131932&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=Arrau+DVD+Beethoven+Op.+111

I ask because the dates they give are 1970 and 1978, not early 60s.
"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure

Offline amw

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3033
Re: Beethoven's Piano Sonatas
« Reply #3649 on: June 22, 2017, 05:03:51 AM »
I should mention also that I recently got hold of a Hammerklavier by Valentina Lisitsa which is quite nice, Pollini-ish (though I think I actually prefer Lisitsa). Just wish the first movement wasn't so slow >.> It's on Youtube as well, in five parts for some reason, which is mildly annoying, but nice to watch someone's hands go through the piece for those of us who are curious about playing it.

Offline Todd

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14295
Re: Beethoven's Piano Sonatas
« Reply #3650 on: June 22, 2017, 05:05:23 AM »
though I think I actually prefer Lisitsa


Inconceivable!
The universe is change; life is opinion.   Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Offline amw

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3033
Re: Beethoven's Piano Sonatas
« Reply #3651 on: June 22, 2017, 05:53:34 AM »
I've never been a huge fan of Pollini's 106! It seemed almost... pedantic somehow, and very small-scale-focused, and lacking the explosive life force that is supposed to animate the piece. (Maybe this is one for the Unpopular Opinions thread.) I think I prefer Lisitsa because her performance has some of that missing life at the expense of some of the analytical clarity, and she doesn't hit the piano quite as hard. >_>

(These remarks apply to Pollini Studio DG. Pollini in Salzburg is much better imo, though still slow, especially in the Adagio.)
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 05:59:07 AM by amw »

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8423
Re: Beethoven's Piano Sonatas
« Reply #3652 on: June 22, 2017, 05:58:24 AM »
Is this the one you guys mean: https://www.amazon.com/Claudio-Arrau-Beethoven-Piano-Sonatas/dp/B004TWOXI0/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1498131932&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=Arrau+DVD+Beethoven+Op.+111

I ask because the dates they give are 1970 and 1978, not early 60s.

That's the one, let me know if you want me to send you the sound files, I've been playing it all day and I forgotten what a good sonata op 111 can be in the right hands.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Todd

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14295
Re: Beethoven's Piano Sonatas
« Reply #3653 on: June 22, 2017, 06:03:30 AM »
Maybe this is one for the Unpopular Opinions thread.


Combine the iconoclastic opinion regarding performance quality with a blithe disregard for Lisitsa's unsavory politics which makes her unpopular all on its own, and you hold an unpopular opinion.  Now I feel compelled to listen to it, if only to understand how very wrong you must be.  It strikes me as somehow outrageous to prefer the work of a younger (broadly understood) performing artist.  How dare you!
The universe is change; life is opinion.   Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Offline amw

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3033
Re: Beethoven's Piano Sonatas
« Reply #3654 on: June 22, 2017, 06:21:20 AM »
Unsavoury politics?? In my classical music???? Say it ain't so! I will retreat to my trove of historical recordings by such untroubled figures as Elly Ney, Alfred Cortot, Herbert von Karajan and Yevgeny Mravinsky.

(I actually have no idea what she's done lol. I will guess it has something to do with the Ukraine conflict since that's where she's from. Whatevs.)

If I am wrong, at least I'm outrageously wrong! Also I think what I look for out of a Hammerklavier is very different from what (e.g.) Pollini looks for out of it. He's aiming for something darker, I think.

Offline Todd

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14295
Re: Beethoven's Piano Sonatas
« Reply #3655 on: June 22, 2017, 06:29:54 AM »
I actually have no idea what she's done lol. I will guess it has something to do with the Ukraine conflict since that's where she's from. Whatevs.


Yep, it's Ukraine related.  As to Pollini, well, he's just a plain old commie, so I must don antiseptic gloves when handling his discs lest his far leftistness rub off on me. 
The universe is change; life is opinion.   Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Offline Brian

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 19721
    • Brian's blog
Re: Beethoven's Piano Sonatas
« Reply #3656 on: June 22, 2017, 06:32:48 AM »
It is clearly far better to be outrageously wrong than to be ordinarily wrong.

Offline amw

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3033
Re: Beethoven's Piano Sonatas
« Reply #3657 on: June 22, 2017, 06:38:56 AM »

Yep, it's Ukraine related.  As to Pollini, well, he's just a plain old commie, so I must don antiseptic gloves when handling his discs lest his far leftistness rub off on me. 
Hmm, that certainly explains the strange compulsion I feel to liberate the working classes from the global bourgeoisie whenever I listen to his Schoenberg album.

Offline Que

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 14063
  • "One HIP dude"
  • Location: The Hague, Netherlands
  • Currently Listening to:
    Still nuts about harpsichord music and exploring Early Music.
Re: Beethoven's Piano Sonatas
« Reply #3658 on: June 22, 2017, 08:11:05 AM »

I’ll put in a word for Paul Komen. He is excellent in a relatively straight-forward way. Among the late sonatas, he did the last 3 but not op. 101 or 106.

Oh yes, so will I... My kind kind of Beethoven: straight up.  :)

And his Diabellis, recorded at the Beethoven Museum are nice too!

Q
À chacun son goût.

Offline Que

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 14063
  • "One HIP dude"
  • Location: The Hague, Netherlands
  • Currently Listening to:
    Still nuts about harpsichord music and exploring Early Music.
Re: Beethoven's Piano Sonatas
« Reply #3659 on: June 22, 2017, 08:20:57 AM »
Badura Skoda on Astrée sounds attractive, but not at $100 for a single out-of-print disc...


At the moment the complete set is available from Japan, issued by Denon I believe. Still expensive though... ($ 260 / € 235)



But perhaps we'lll get lucky with a cheap reissue by a revamped Naïve!  :)

Q
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 08:26:49 AM by Que »
À chacun son goût.

Buying Music From Amazon?
Please consider using these links. A small percentage of every sale using these links is passed on to GMG and helps keep this forum online.
Amazon US
Amazon Canada
Amazon UK