Author Topic: Box Blather  (Read 71506 times)

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Offline Mookalafalas

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2014, 05:01:02 AM »
Orfeo, well put, and I appreciate your point of view.  It's a calm, moderate, aesthetic approach that reminds me of many people I knew in Japan.  That's certainly the way I bought music for most of my life--but due to necessity rather than choice.  My view of music (and most things in life, I guess) is "Why sip from a tea cup when you can drink from the river" 8)  I plan to eventually get back to a place where I have a moderate sized collection of favorites, but I love the big boxes because I can explore a huge range of things, experience them, and yet still have them.  I love loading five discs in my player, listening to all of them, being wowed, and then taking them out and putting in five more. Of course I only know them casually, but we've been introduced and I know I can come back and get better acquainted anytime I want.  Just thinking about it makes me want to get up in the morning, or drive faster coming home from work... 
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Offline Mookalafalas

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2014, 05:07:30 AM »
When I talked to Ken about forming this thread, the goal was to make a thread to talk the pros and cons of various boxes. Instead it seems to have become another "meta-box" thread debating the idea of boxes...
  I actually PM'd Moonfish to join in, but he hasn't shown up yet. 
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DavidW

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2014, 05:14:50 AM »
I've come to think that the defining feature of the Rilling Bach Cantata box is Arlene Auger.  She sings in a huge chunk of the set and her singing is heartfelt and beautiful.

Offline Pat B

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2014, 06:06:49 AM »
I honestly don't see much benefit in throwing vast quantities of music at myself, quantities SO vast that I can't possibly get to know it in real depth, because it's knowing music in depth that creates the most pleasure.

This is wisdom. I struggle with it, not just due to big boxes. My unlistened pile is much smaller than some, but I have a lot of discs that I have only listened to once or twice.

OTOH, for those of us who care about having physical media, now seems to be a good time to buy. Hopefully I will have many years to enjoy it all.

Offline Pat B

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2014, 06:10:52 AM »
When I talked to Ken about forming this thread, the goal was to make a thread to talk the pros and cons of various boxes. Instead it seems to have become another "meta-box" thread debating the idea of boxes...
  I actually PM'd Moonfish to join in, but he hasn't shown up yet.

I thought the other thread was supposed to be for comments on specific boxes. This one, from the beginning, seemed to be more of a meta-box thread.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2014, 06:28:08 AM »
This is wisdom. I struggle with it, not just due to big boxes. My unlistened pile is much smaller than some, but I have a lot of discs that I have only listened to once or twice.

OTOH, for those of us who care about having physical media, now seems to be a good time to buy. Hopefully I will have many years to enjoy it all.

Maybe it's best to see listening to a recording as like going to a concert, an ephemeral experience which may never be repeated. But nevertheless fun and it builds up your experience of what can be done with the music.

This is something I've learned from streaming services, and it seems to me a good thing.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Mookalafalas

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2014, 06:37:56 AM »
Yeah...blather invites uninhibited discussion, but doesn't really conjure up the idea of appreciation. Well, hopefully it will get on track at some point.

  But if I think "thread duty" where does that get me?

  Anyway, I broke out my neglected Klemperer boxes today and am happy I did so.  I've been all HIP for quite a while, and while loving it, suddenly having huge doses of big band orchestral music has felt really good.  His concertos are awesome, and I really like his un-hip Mozart as well.  It aint Hogwood, but it's mighty good. I'll admit his Brandenberg's are rather leaden, but his St. Mathew works (for me, anyway).  The Beethoven, Brahms, and Bruckner are really house-rocking.  You just want to keep turning up the volume...
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Offline Pat B

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2014, 06:47:08 AM »
Maybe it's best to see listening to a recording as like going to a concert, an ephemeral experience which may never be repeated. But nevertheless fun and it builds up your experience of what can be done with the music.

This is something I've learned from streaming services, and it seems to me a good thing.

I think that's an interesting and valid mindset, certainly well-suited to the streaming model. I'm not convinced that it's best, at least for me, because I also enjoy getting to know some recordings in depth.

Ken B

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2014, 06:47:52 AM »
but his St. Mathew works (for me, anyway).

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kishnevi

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2014, 06:58:01 AM »
well, if we are commenting about boxes, and not the overall phenomenon,  I'll repost what I posted last night in the Bach's Bungalow thread:

Almost exactly a month since someone lasted posted here!

Well,  I'm almost at the end of a complete first run through of the Hanssler Bachakademie Complete Bach box*, and I've already gotten the equivalent box from Teldec, so I'd thought I'd make a brief general comparison of the two for anyone interested in them.

I'm pretty much pleased with both of them,  and both of them have different strengths and weaknesses.  Overall,  I though Hanssler did a better job with the vocal works, and Teldec with the instrumental works,  but with shadings.  I preferred the Hanssler recordings of the organ works (by a variety of organists) to that of Teldec (Koopman).  One real musical treasure that is well done in both boxes was the collection of four part chorale settings (ie, the chorales for chorus, as opposed to the chorales for organ).

Hanssler is mostly MI, and Teldec is of course thoroughly HIP/PI.

I found myself preferring the vocal works in the Hanssler box for two reasons:  first, I'm not a fan of boy sopranos, who of course are a staple of the Leonhardt/Harnoncourt cycle found in the Teldec box; second, Rilling's presentation of the vocal works came across better to me, especially in the Passions and other "major" choral works.  But I prefer my other complete cycle of cantatas--Gardiner--to either  of the ones in the boxes.

On the other hand, the presentation of the keyboard and orchestral works was a sort of hodgepodge in the Hanssler box, but more consistent (in part because of the only PI approach) in the Teldec box, and in general I prefer a PI approach (boy sopranos excepted).

Hanssler has issued several segments of its box as smaller sets,  including both the sacred cantatas and the organ works, so a nice compromise might be to get those two smaller sets, and the complete Teldec box.

*listening to the flute sonatas now, which will leave only the suites for solo cello to be heard, and I hope to get that in the CD player sometime tomorrow.

The flute sonatas were rather bleh, but I have yet to run across a flute sonata that didn't make me feel bleh.   I've got the first CD of the cello suites on now, and Boris Pergamenschikow is turning on a first rate performance.

Offline Jay F

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2014, 02:56:28 PM »
I honestly don't see much benefit in throwing vast quantities of music at myself, quantities SO vast that I can't possibly get to know it in real depth, because it's knowing music in depth that creates the most pleasure.

I feel the same way. I know someone who buys an enormous number of CDs, more than he can listen to before he dies. And he keeps buying more. He listens to as much as he can, but he never plays anything a second time. I can't imagine being so unfamiliar with my music. I probably listen to 20% of my music 90% of the time. I love the things I love, and I need to hear things more than once, more than ten times, if I am to love any piece of music. I can't do it with these gargantuan box sets.

Ken B

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2014, 03:02:41 PM »
I feel the same way. I know someone who buys an enormous number of CDs, more than he can listen to before he dies. And he keeps buying more. He listens to as much as he can, but he never plays anything a second time. I can't imagine being so unfamiliar with my music. I probably listen to 20% of my music 90% of the time. I love the things I love, and I need to hear things more than once, more than ten times, if I am to love any piece of music. I can't do it with these gargantuan box sets.
Actually you can, they help do that. I wore out my copies of what I had when I was younger. My one copy of Mozart's PC 21. Some pieces two copies. If you want to learn a piece surely several different readings are better than one over and over. Boxes let you do that, especially conductor boxes.

Offline Mookalafalas

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2014, 03:21:03 PM »
Actually you can, they help do that. I wore out my copies of what I had when I was younger. My one copy of Mozart's PC 21. Some pieces two copies. If you want to learn a piece surely several different readings are better than one over and over. Boxes let you do that, especially conductor boxes.

   And how do you find the music that is going to be your favorites?  My brother plays music all the time, but he only has about 50 CDs (rock with a couple of exceptions).  He's not interested in anything new (says there's nothing else good out there)--has all he needs now.  He's happy, which is good, but I don't envy him at all.
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Offline Brian

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2014, 03:31:27 PM »
   And how do you find the music that is going to be your favorites?

GMG and streaming (Naxos Music Library). Big assist to David Hurwitz on a select few things (like Pierne's ballet Cydalise).

Offline Mookalafalas

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2014, 04:01:08 PM »
GMG and streaming (Naxos Music Library). Big assist to David Hurwitz on a select few things (like Pierne's ballet Cydalise).

  No doubt a streaming service is sensible and economical.  But I just can't bring myself to start with them. To me it's like the cloud storage--I'm going to trust some people I've never met take care of all my most precious memorabilia god-knows-where?  I feel more comfortable having my own hard drives and backing it up myself.  And my music, if I'm in the middle of a CD and go to the kitchen to eat, I can hit pause, or pop it out and take it with me.  I can sit and read the liner notes, or the included book.  There is a collector quality, too. I like having the disc and the sleeve. I love original jackets, browsing for a while before I decide the discs I'm going to load, and sliding the disc out of the sleeve.  The tactile elements, and the ritual preparation, getting settled in my chair with some coffee or a cocktail, or a book, are part of the musical experience for me...
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Offline Moonfish

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2014, 04:16:50 PM »
So this thread is about the pros and cons in regards to box sets?

Hey Baklavaboy - I cannot believe I am writing this - but I am starting to enjoy having access to Spotify!!!   It is pretty amazing, but I am still in the "pile up the cds on the shelves" camp at this point in time. My wife is not complaining (yet).
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Ken B

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2014, 04:23:00 PM »
  No doubt a streaming service is sensible and economical.  But I just can't bring myself to start with them. To me it's like the cloud storage--I'm going to trust some people I've never met take care of all my most precious memorabilia god-knows-where?  I feel more comfortable having my own hard drives and backing it up myself.  And my music, if I'm in the middle of a CD and go to the kitchen to eat, I can hit pause, or pop it out and take it with me.  I can sit and read the liner notes, or the included book.  There is a collector quality, too. I like having the disc and the sleeve. I love original jackets, browsing for a while before I decide the discs I'm going to load, and sliding the disc out of the sleeve.  The tactile elements, and the ritual preparation, getting settled in my chair with some coffee or a cocktail, or a book, are part of the musical experience for me...

+1

Cloud has a lot of advantages but I forget things. Looking over shelves reminds me of stuff.

Offline Moonfish

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2014, 04:25:42 PM »
Moonfish? Where are you?  I'm wondering how much you are actually playing this:



   I like Bream a lot, but don't play that much guitar music (but then again, I don't have much guitar music.  I passed on this box because I was sure it was one of those where ten is as good as 40 because the sound is relatively homogeneous for a non-specialist.  To test this, I started playing my few Bream discs...but the more I play, it seems the more I like it.  BTW, price at Amazon.de is pretty good.

Ahh, the Bream box. I must admit that I store the very large boxes upstairs (I hate the super large boxes that has too much room inside - perhaps I should move to your sleeve storage approach) and as a consequence has not been listened to too much. The recordings I have listened to have been very enjoyable, but I have a weakness for the lute as well as the guitar. If you fall into that category it is a no brainer. Like other genres of music it becomes complex and interesting in its own way as one continues to listen to the performances. 
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Anna Lappé

Offline Mookalafalas

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2014, 04:29:30 PM »
So this thread is about the pros and cons in regards to box sets?

Hey Baklavaboy - I cannot believe I am writing this - but I am starting to enjoy having access to Spotify!!!   It is pretty amazing, but I am still in the "pile up the cds on the shelves" camp at this point in time. My wife is not complaining (yet).

  I think Ken meant it as a "pros and cons of individual box sets", but the title attracted a surprising amount of "I don't like box-sets and I'll tell you why" traffic. 
  I'd start a new "Box set appreciation thread" or "Box-set lovers thread: recommendations and warnings" (I was also thinking about "Big boxes and the men who love them" but was afraid I'd get sniggers), but I don't want to undercut this thread if it is going to get on track.  That's why I flagged you...
It's all good...

Ken B

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Re: Box Blather
« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2014, 04:30:11 PM »
Ahh, the Bream box. I must admit that I store the very large boxes upstairs (I hate the super large boxes that has too much room inside - perhaps I should move to your sleeve storage approach) and as a consequence has not been listened to too much. The recordings I have listened to have been very enjoyable, but I have a weakness for the lute as well as the guitar. If you fall into that category it is a no brainer. Like other genres of music it becomes complex and interesting in its own way as one continues to listen to the performances.
Oddly enough I adore lute but usually mildly dislike guitar. Probably a side effect of growing up when Joni Mitchell, like the angel of musical death, was abroad upon the land.