Author Topic: Anglo-American 'Special Relationship'.  (Read 2235 times)

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Offline Florestan

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Re: Anglo-American 'Special Relationship'.
« Reply #60 on: July 14, 2018, 02:06:46 AM »
My Romanian informant tells me that Russian was a favored language to learn in the 60's or so.

Actually, it was more like "compulsory" than "favored". ;D
Music, even in situations of the greatest horror, should never be painful to the ear but should flatter and charm it, and thereby always remain music.. - Mozart

Online Que

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Re: Anglo-American 'Special Relationship'.
« Reply #61 on: July 14, 2018, 02:44:54 AM »
Nothing you wrote contradicts anything I wrote. I focused on actions, you focused on the motives behind them.  :)

Correct, and I was not trying to contradict.  :D

However, the motives behind these benign historical actions do matter when reflecting on the degree in which "we Europeans" need to feel indebted to the US and UK. The US has for a long time considered the EU instrumental in its power base.
The UK, its then junior ally and soon-to-be "vassal state", pushed EU expansion on its behalf to further its geopolitical powerstrugle with Russia.

Why does the US spend more on defence than all its NATO allies? Because it wants to remain the most powerful country in the world.
Why? Amongst other things,  to remain the wealthiest nation on the planet. America = no. 1.... ;)

So, on topic:

Rees-Mogg and his Brexit croonies urgently need to reflect in wether they want to be "a colony" of the EU or a (real) vassal state to the US. Membership of the EU in actual fact means for the UK being a major player in a ruled based political and economic alliance of global importance. Though some compromising and loosing a court case now and then is part of the package.

The alternative is being pushed around by the US, which will treat the UK as an extended market for its products and a puppet on the international political stage.

Though choice, because neiter option involves the revival of the British Empire.....  >:D
The Empire is gone, deal with it!

Q
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 03:14:58 AM by Que »
À chacun son goût.

Offline EddieRUKiddingVarese

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Re: Anglo-American 'Special Relationship'.
« Reply #62 on: July 14, 2018, 03:05:26 AM »
the US Empire is fading fast
"Everyone is born with genius, but most people only keep it a few minutes"
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Offline vandermolen

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Re: Anglo-American 'Special Relationship'.
« Reply #63 on: July 14, 2018, 04:40:32 AM »
Countries never act out of altruistic motives, I'm afraid...  ::)

Britain took the lead in WWII because German domination was a direct thread to its interest as a major global and European power. But it looked the other way when Germany violated the Versailles Treaties by rearming, and again when Germany overtook Austria, and sacrificed the sovereignty of Czechoslovakia in Munich.

The US, as mentioned, looked the other way untill it was attacked.
Stalin knew Hitler was a thread but struck a deal to buy time by carving up Poland.

The post war Marshall aid that was so benificial to Western European countries, was part of the US policy to resist Soviet domination in Europe - for its own benefit. Did British resistance and US intervention and subsequent support save Europe and Western democracy? Yes of course it did. But both the US and the UK acted to safeguard their own empires, their gobal power.
Freedom in Europe, including the later expansion of NATO and the EU to Eastern Europe, is "just" a byproduct of a global powerstrugle.

As post war history has demonstrated, the US and other Western powers had no problem whatsoever to undermine democracy in certain countries and violate the rule of (international) law when it suited them.

Of course nobody told that to the soldiers dying in the battle field of WW II. They died for freedom and democracy,  and my personal gratitude goes out to them instead of the politicians that send them - and contributed to the mess in the first place.

Q

Oh yes, of course Britain went to war in 1939 to protect the interests of the British Empire and try to prevent the complete domination of Europe by Nazi Germany. However, they did, together with their French and Dominion Allies, go to war. I agree about the betrayal of Czechoslovakia at Munich but for various reasons it would have been difficult for Britain to declare war on Germany then and, for one, it would have split the Empire. However, it was still a betrayal of the Czechs. The French came out of it even worse as they were allies of the Czechs.

As for Marshall Aid one of my students, in answer to my question as to whether or not it was an act of selfless generosity by the Americans replied by saying 'it was generous but not selfless' which I thought was a very good answer and it is my opinion as well.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline Florestan

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Re: Anglo-American 'Special Relationship'.
« Reply #64 on: July 14, 2018, 05:52:38 AM »
As for Marshall Aid one of my students, in answer to my question as to whether or not it was an act of selfless generosity by the Americans replied by saying 'it was generous but not selfless'

Excellent and spot on!
Music, even in situations of the greatest horror, should never be painful to the ear but should flatter and charm it, and thereby always remain music.. - Mozart