Author Topic: Bruckner's 6th Symphony - Blind Comparison  (Read 50683 times)

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Offline Cato

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Re: Bruckner's 6th Symphony - Blind Comparison
« Reply #680 on: October 29, 2014, 02:10:47 PM »
There is a Largo marking there, incidentally >.> At least in the manuscript. Haas & Nowak put it in brackets and it doesn't seem to be observed often.

At bar 45 of the Nowak score: yes, it is in parentheses as possibly invalid.  This was not the only section that seemed to be slouching toward Largo.  ;)


Time for F 2

I. Overall, an excellent performance of the opening!  Tempos are usually just right, good clarity in the polyphony, and climaxes are powerful.  A few quibbles about the soft sections not being all that soft: a "ppp" was not followed particularly well.  An accelerando and a molto ritardando were also sort of kind of like not followed.

II. Now the dynamic contrasts are excellent!  And the crescendos are also exquisite!  Special mention given to the crescendos in bars 113-125 (Nowak).  Again, excellent clarity in the polyphony, and the final page brings across the otherworldly aspects of the score.

III. A crisp, brisk, no-nonsense Scherzo, with again excellent attention to dynamics: special mention to bars 64-67 (Nowak).  The Trio sounded perfect, as did the return of the opening!

And then...

IV.   ??? ??? ??? ???  What happened?!  Suddenly the energy, the crispness, the clarity, the sharpness, the incisive entries (and not just of the brass) which were earlier just fine are now absent!  The tempo was slowed down a little too much, until the last third of the movement, where things began to sound better again.

Things just became more difficult!  ;)
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

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Offline Cato

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Re: Bruckner's 6th Symphony - Blind Comparison
« Reply #681 on: October 30, 2014, 08:26:13 AM »
Today we have F 3!

I. A slower opening than one might expect, which gives the movement a chugging nature at times, especially in the brass, which sound a little raw in general.  The performance picks up in quality, however, as the movement progresses.  Clarity in the polyphony is often sacrificed for power or thematic dominance. 

II. The Adagio starts off well, with fine execution throughout and better attention to the details.  The tempo is a little faster than I would like.  This little extra haste robs certain sections of their impact e.g. c. 12:00 with the descending line in the strings, and especially in the last page.

III.  And now the Scherzo is a good deal slower than expected: does the idea work?  No, for a lackadaisical feeling came through to me in the opening bars, although the first climax was perhaps emphasized by the earlier semi-somnolence.  The Trio was played competently enough, but nothing special came through.

IV. Things are good: tempo, phrasing, balance, attention to detail, and then c. 11:00 or so they become GREAT!   8)   Where was this orchestra and this conductor in the first three movements?  Energy, passion, expression, everything in the last minutes worked! 

Now go back and fix the previous 55 minutes!   ??? :laugh:

    0:)   Sancte   0:)    Eugeni    0:): ubi es?     ;)

« Last Edit: October 30, 2014, 03:41:15 PM by Cato »
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Offline Cato

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Re: Bruckner's 6th Symphony - Blind Comparison
« Reply #682 on: October 30, 2014, 03:40:28 PM »
And now, the end of the road, and it was worth waiting for!!!

F 4

I. Great cathedral-like sound, perfect for Bruckner!  The performance is practically perfect: finally, the perfect tempo, practically perfect execution, clarity in the lines: DRAMA, EXCITEMENT, MYSTERY!  In contrast with the others, there is a Jochumesque  ??? ??? ??? grasp of how to get the job done correctly!  Any quibbles might be not slowing down enough at the end, and bars 269-275 could have been a wee slower, otherwise, "practically perfect."

II.  Again, that BIG SOUND is present, along with gorgeous string playing, tempo perfect, the phrasing at bars 41-44 exquisite, the transition to the funeral march and the march itself, both perfect.  The dialogues are wonderfully expressive, and in bars 93 ff. the triplets in the bass - who pays attention to that? - you can feel the tension and drama! it's there!  The final pages are again exemplary.

III. The first proclamation of the brass is an explosion: and again, the clarity of the voices, the BIG sound, the energy, all impressive.  The Trio hangs together quite well, with its attention to the little details, and the high Eb in the horn at bar 44 is no problem.

IV.  The opening is a grand slam home run!  Again, an excellent degree of separation in the voices, the cathedral sound, the tempo, the dialogues, the handling of crescendos and diminuendos, all top rank!  Note the somewhat blithe, slightly mocking tone in the section at bars 186 ff.  and the drive in the orchestra at bars 245 ff.  LISTEN to that brass section in the final 2 pages!!!  All outstanding!

You get the point!   8)    Saint   0:)  Eugen would be pleased!



Final rankings:

1. F 4

and then off in the dusty distance...

2. F 2

3. F 3

4. F 1
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Ken B

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Re: Bruckner's 6th Symphony - Blind Comparison
« Reply #683 on: October 30, 2014, 03:52:28 PM »
Quote
Jochumesque

I was going to cavil about this, perhaps with allusions to a grammar grumble, but then I thought, no Ken, Cato might be right. This recording might finish in last place and be ejected. What indeed could more aptly fit being spurned by GMG than this very word?

So I counted the votes. Jochumesque it is!

 >:D >:D :laugh: :laugh: 8) ;)

Offline amw

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Re: Bruckner's 6th Symphony - Blind Comparison
« Reply #684 on: October 30, 2014, 04:03:01 PM »
Hey, it could in fact be Jochum himself. We've already eliminated his Dresden and Berlin recordings, but his Concertgebouw one's still unaccounted for. ;)

Offline TheGSMoeller

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Re: Bruckner's 6th Symphony - Blind Comparison
« Reply #685 on: October 30, 2014, 04:22:11 PM »
F1 - 18
F2 - 17.5
F3 - 18.5
F4 - 16


Wow! This race is too close! I don't want to close it. I would like to give Ray a chance, although I don't know when he'll be back.
Anybody else out there that hasn't voted? Only 7 scores so far, I know I sent out more links than that. 8)

kishnevi

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Re: Bruckner's 6th Symphony - Blind Comparison
« Reply #686 on: October 30, 2014, 04:26:05 PM »
To know that Cato thinks the way I do about a Bruckner recording is a most blessed thing.

Ken B

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Re: Bruckner's 6th Symphony - Blind Comparison
« Reply #687 on: October 30, 2014, 04:29:57 PM »
Hey, it could in fact be Jochum himself. We've already eliminated his Dresden and Berlin recordings, but his Concertgebouw one's still unaccounted for. ;)
Oooooooooo. Jochum triple death! What an exciting thought!  :laugh:

Offline Cato

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Re: Bruckner's 6th Symphony - Blind Comparison
« Reply #688 on: October 30, 2014, 06:26:05 PM »
To know that Cato thinks the way I do about a Bruckner recording is a most blessed thing.

Well, thank you!   :D
F1 - 18
F2 - 17.5
F3 - 18.5
F4 - 16


Wow! This race is too close! I don't want to close it. I would like to give Ray a chance, although I don't know when he'll be back.
Anybody else out there that hasn't voted? Only 7 scores so far, I know I sent out more links than that. 8)

How about if I sign in under a different name and listen again?  Aristoxenus perhaps?  Or Boethius?    ;)

The scores might be different...you never know!  8)
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Offline Brian

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Re: Bruckner's 6th Symphony - Blind Comparison
« Reply #689 on: October 30, 2014, 07:52:44 PM »
Not going to lie: I am thinking about listening to all four a second time and re-tallying my own vote.

Offline mc ukrneal

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Re: Bruckner's 6th Symphony - Blind Comparison
« Reply #690 on: October 30, 2014, 10:16:33 PM »
Not going to lie: I am thinking about listening to all four a second time and re-tallying my own vote.
Not gonna lie - I already did. And it comes out more or less the same for me, though this time I listened in a different order. I think, for the most part, we are hearing a lot of the same things but weighting their importance differently. Though, there are some things people claim to hear that I don't really think are present and there are other things I feel important but others have not even commented on.
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

Offline TheGSMoeller

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Re: Bruckner's 6th Symphony - Blind Comparison
« Reply #691 on: October 31, 2014, 02:51:09 AM »
Alright, the set deadline is Saturday night. That gives this round almost 2 more days for new votes. And I'll accept a change in score, Brian, I havd no problem with that.

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: Bruckner's 6th Symphony - Blind Comparison
« Reply #692 on: October 31, 2014, 02:53:31 AM »
Not going to lie: I am thinking about listening to all four a second time and re-tallying my own vote.

 ???  Are you being influenced unduly by the Jochumites? For shame  ;D

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
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Offline Cato

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Re: Bruckner's 6th Symphony - Blind Comparison
« Reply #693 on: October 31, 2014, 03:14:43 AM »
??? Are you being influenced unduly by the Jochumites? For shame  ;D

Sarge

It is absolutely, scientifically, and apodictically impossible and impocerous   ???   for anybody to be too influenced by Jochumites!  0:)

How about if I sign in under a different name and listen again?  Aristoxenus perhaps?  Or Boethius?    ;)

Another possibility for a name came to mind: PINK HARP
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: Bruckner's 6th Symphony - Blind Comparison
« Reply #694 on: October 31, 2014, 03:39:36 AM »
I'd be interested in your comments whenever they are posted. Especially curious why you're not fond of ____. I assume because of the speed and the relentless focus on surface drama?

That's one reason I placed F4 last in this round...but I don't dislike it. In fact, in the three earlier rounds I gave it, in its groups, second place (round 1), first place (round 2) and second place (round 3). But in the final round it came up against two of my favorite Bruckner Sixths and even with this fresh listen, and reevaluation, it could not dislodge them.

Sarge
« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 04:12:18 AM by Sergeant Rock »
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Offline Brian

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Re: Bruckner's 6th Symphony - Blind Comparison
« Reply #695 on: October 31, 2014, 04:29:05 AM »
???  Are you being influenced unduly by the Jochumites? For shame  ;D

Sarge
Actually I've kind of wanted to listen twice since I posted my scores the first time! Even since I compared them to Neal's. It doesn't hurt that they are so good. :)

Offline ChamberNut

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Re: Bruckner's 6th Symphony - Blind Comparison
« Reply #696 on: October 31, 2014, 04:36:11 AM »
F1 - 18
F2 - 17.5
F3 - 18.5
F4 - 16


Wow! This race is too close! I don't want to close it. I would like to give Ray a chance, although I don't know when he'll be back.
Anybody else out there that hasn't voted? Only 7 scores so far, I know I sent out more links than that. 8)

Hi Greg,

Because it is such a close race, I will try and get my listening and vote in for the final.  Just give me to end of weekend perhaps?  I don't want to promise anything, but will honestly try.  :)
Location:  Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

Offline TheGSMoeller

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Re: Bruckner's 6th Symphony - Blind Comparison
« Reply #697 on: October 31, 2014, 04:37:23 AM »
Hi Greg,

Because it is such a close race, I will try and get my listening and vote in for the final.  Just give me to end of weekend perhaps?  I don't want to promise anything, but will honestly try.  :)

Hi, Ray. Hope you're doing well. I'll give you whatever time you need, you've been here since the beginning and would love to have you participate!

Ken B

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Re: Bruckner's 6th Symphony - Blind Comparison
« Reply #698 on: October 31, 2014, 04:49:05 AM »
Hi Greg,

Because it is such a close race, I will try and get my listening and vote in for the final.  Just give me to end of weekend perhaps?  I don't want to promise anything, but will honestly try.  :)

Even I, impatient by-stander, say let Ray have the time!

Offline mc ukrneal

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Re: Bruckner's 6th Symphony - Blind Comparison
« Reply #699 on: October 31, 2014, 04:52:41 AM »
Even I, impatient by-stander, say let Ray have the time!
Maybe you should be more than a by-stander and jump right in...
Be kind to your fellow posters!!